Thomas Green here with Ethical Marketing Service. On the podcast today we have Jodi Krangle. Jodi, welcome.
Hi, thanks for having me on.
It’s my pleasure. Would you like to take a moment and tell the audience a bit about yourself and what you do?
Sure. I have been a full time voice actor since 2007 and I really love what I do. I’m also a singer and podcaster and I started a podcast called Audio Branding – which you can see in the background here – that talks about the power of sound. So I talk about how sound influences us and that also it’s in buying decisions, but it’s also in our daily lives. There’s a lot of things that we hear that influence what we do and how we feel. So I think it’s important to get that message out there And yeah, that podcast has been around since November 2019, so I’m coming up on the 100th episode and trying to figure out what to do for it.
Well, never has there been a time, I think from my perspective where my guest is talking about something which I so desperately need, but for those people with monotone problems or perhaps, I don’t know, the emotions aren’t quite coming through in the voice, what would you tell them? What can you help them with?
They, and when I say they, what I really mean is me, well, you know, I think that there is maybe a misconception that people need to change themselves. I don’t necessarily think that you have to. What I would say is that the more comfortable you get and the more vulnerable you get, the easier it is to change the tone of your voice and sometimes it’s as simple as just listening to your voice recorded and hearing what you’re doing and what words you are or aren’t emphasising if you feel that there’s an emotion you’re not portraying, then maybe hearing yourself on a recording not portraying it will give you more understanding of what you’re not doing so that you can better hone in on what you should be doing. But at the same time, I’m not necessarily a vocal coach. So what I would suggest is that you talk with someone who actually is really good at public speaking.
So for instance, there’s a woman that I interviewed on my show, her name is Cynthia Zhai, it’s Z-H-A-I. And she is in Singapore and she actually helps CEOs of companies sound like they’re CEOs of companies. So giving people more power in how they vocalise is a big part of what she does. And a lot of what she says is relaxation is a really good way to get past some of these things that tends us up breathing properly, letting out size, just sort of slowing down a little bit sometimes. That can help a lot. But yeah, I would highly recommend that if you’re interested in public speaking and that kind of thing, there are many, many different resources that you can look at that will help you with that. Well, this might, this question might actually help us with what you do a little bit. So the big thing in the background and also some of the questions that you often get asked, which is what is audio grounding, why is it important?
Well, I’m going to sort of let you know what the International Sound Awards define audio branding as they’re an organisation based out of Germany that does a sound award every year. And they’re also a branch I believe, or they’re put on by the audio branding academy. So they kind of know what they’re talking about is the point here. Uh, they say that it’s a brand sound that represents the identity and values of a brand in a distinctive manner. Audio logo, branded, functional sounds, brand music or the brand voice are characteristic elements of audio branding. So it’s a big picture type of thing. It’s not just a jingle, it’s not just a sonic logo, it’s the whole picture. So if you’ve done the work to make a visual picture of your company, a logo, the fonts, the colours, you choose the white space that you put around your ads, all of these things are characteristic of how you’re trying to help people understand who you are and a really good way to help them do that is to also carry through with that with sound.
And the reason that sound is so powerful, it reaches us on an emotional level, it gives us emotional context. And the best way for me to explain this is if you’re watching a movie and you turn off the sound, you’ll get what the movie is about, you’ll understand the plot, you won’t care about it, right? I mean when you, when you hear the music that gives you the emotional cues, you have to understand how you’re supposed to relate to this thing emotionally deeply and some things will affect you more than others obviously. But if a company really uses this effectively, they can help, there are clients, their potential, um, audience, anyone who would experience their brand, they can help them understand who they are in a really visceral deep way and it feels more authentic to us as human beings. So that really, I don’t know that honestly, like, personally, I don’t know the brand loyalty is a thing because I think it only goes so far, but if you’re going to have brand loyalty, I think if you understand the brand you’re going to have more loyalty towards it, that just makes more sense to me.
So, I mean, typical company, how do they use audio branding in terms of like, next steps that you would recommend? Well, it depends on what the company is. So if you’re talking about something that manufacturers pieces that sit in, say a kitchen, anything that has a sound that it makes can have a specific sound, it doesn’t have to have the sound that everyone else has, it could have a different sound. A lot of brands start podcasts and those podcasts have a branded speaker, they have an intro and an outro. They have music. A lot of people have on hold. I’ve er, you know, their phone systems, right? Lots of people don’t think about their phone systems and they really should because the phone system is often the first touch point that you have with your clients. And I’ve used this example many times before, but if you’re a high end jewellery store, having eighties hair band music on your on hold isn’t really going to give people the right impression, you know, so, so you got to match it up with who you are, but also there’s a there’s a van diagram in their of who you want people to feel that you are and who you want to be, so that you attract the people who will use what you have to offer. So it’s a melding of the two, you know who you are and who your audience is and where do they meet in the middle?
Great answer. In terms of if you did, let’s say, someone, family friend or whatever, and they had that exact jewellery business that was playing 80s music, what would you advise them to do in order to make that better?
Well, there are a lot of services that do this kind of thing. So I would highly recommend that they talk with people who do this on a professional basis because it’s not that expensive to get on hold. I mean, you know, this is an investment in your business, it’s an investment in your clients in the way that you present yourself to the world, which is pretty important. And there are some things that are worth investing in as far as your business is concerned, you know, and I just think that it’s important to give that some thought and like I said, there are a lot of companies that do that out there and for various different phone systems, so really it depends on what phone system you have, but there’s all sorts of them out there.
You would be, if you were to help specifically, you’d be voiceover person. Yes. Yeah, that is what I do, that’s all I do. So how did you realise that you were good, you have that talent or how did you get into it? Well, I’ve been a singer all my life, so I am no stranger to using my voice and I like using my voice. I’ve done performance as far as music is concerned. So I understand theater of the mind a little bit. I’m also an avid DND players. So, you know, theater of the mind is not outside the realm of what I do on a daily basis, but I really found that voice acting was it kind of hit all my buttons. It was kind of interesting now, as far as like the pentagram is concerned, I’m an INFJ, so I’m an introvert, but I’m sort of left and right brain. So it’s an interesting conflict because I kind of like the finance and the numbers and the bookkeeping and stuff like that, but I also like being creative and I don’t need to be in front of the camera, you know, this is, these are kind of, I do these occasionally, but I find it fun, but it’s limited times and I don’t need to be in front of a camera all the time.
So being a film actor was never anything I wanted to do but being behind the scenes and helping people understand their own audio brand. Being a part of that audio brand. Not necessarily. It’s kind of an odd thing because like you think, oh, you know, people get into this because they want to be a cartoon character, right? They want to get into animation or they’re a theater actor and they love the idea of performing all of the different people in an audio book, like that just thrills them. And I know that there are a lot of people like that and to them, I I bow down because they do fantastic work and they work really hard at it and that’s awesome. That’s fantastic for me. I like helping people make money and that’s kind of a function of the whole left and right brain. I like having the practical aspect along with the creative. So for me, the whole voice acting thing for me, I wanted to get into the advertising end of it because I wanted to let large companies or small companies put forth a really good impression to the people that are experiencing their brand to understand who they are as a company, what they offer, why someone should care.
You know, I mean, that’s a big one, right? Why should anyone care? So that to me is a challenge. I really like that challenge. It excites me and You know, there’s all of the opening stuff of, well, you know, I actually volunteered my time back in 1995 and 96 for the Canadian National Institute for the Blind. And I was reading magazines really on to reel to reel tape at the time. And just for, for people who are blind, who wanted to read magazines, they could just listen to it. And that was my first exposure to what voice acting was really. But it took several years after that to really get into the whole voice acting thing. And then it was more of a, well, how do I help people allow people to understand who they are? And then the audio branding podcast came later once I figured out, oh, that’s what I was doing. So it’s, it just kind of has all followed one after the other.
When I was growing up, we had sing a long time, We didn’t have story time. My sister and I and my parents, we would, my dad played guitar, my mom sang and we would, you know, gather on on my sister’s bed. We would all sing songs together. Like that was, you know, so sound, audio has always been a part of my life. It’s never been something that I had to, not that I don’t have to work at my craft, but it’s never been something that I hadn’t had in my life, and so it just kind of naturally progressed that I wanted to do something with my voice. It’s always been that way. Well, anyone who says that they are a singer, I always like to invite you if you want to do a little song for us, if you want to, I would prefer not in this kind of a venue. Wrong, definitely wrong mike, But I do have a album at jodikranglemusic.com, so if anyone wants to listen to that, they’re more than welcome to.
I think it’s actually free on the web.
Well, I’ll have to have a look at that. And I did actually have, I did do an episode with someone incidentally, a blind man who was also a singer and he put out some pretty good tunes for us. So maybe when we stopped recording you can show me your singing voice.
Well, maybe I wasn’t really prepared for that. Maybe, maybe not.
Do you ever do any with your voice over work? Do you do any really weird kind of, I’m surprised I’m talking about this particular business work.
I don’t know if I call it weird, but you know, I’ve done medical things on like, you know, colon cancer and like, you know, really, osteoporosis and like, you know, medical narrations that are things I would never want to get. And, you know, there’s every day is new, that’s what I love about this, every day is new and different and I never know what’s around the corner. So, you know, I’ve done stuff for Dell and bows and BBVA and Humana and three M and like all these different and I mean, you know, a lot of it is not very glamorous at all, A lot of it is like internal narrations, you know that that employees are going to hear and no one else has been here. But I will say that audio branding is just as important to your employees as it is to the people who experience your brand from the outside because the people who are inside your organisation need to know who you are, just like everyone else because they’re your ambassadors with the world outside, right? So they better know who you are.
if I was to ask you what’s the funniest piece of work you’ve done, does that spring to mind anything?
Oh the funniest? Oh, I don’t know. Oh my goodness. I did play a fairy queen in an animation once because it was a voice match with someone and they cast me in this. It was really interesting. I did it for a year and it was a very interesting experience. I Like that answer. The Fairy Queen. That’s a good one. So in some of your questions I’ve got here. Strange facts about sound. Well one of the biggest ones is that you can actually influence what you taste with what you hear. It’s really fascinating inter sensory thing that all of our senses work together and influence each other. Specifically hearing and taste and smell actually are very intertwined and it’s a really interesting experiment.
I believe that I talked with us about quite some time ago actually with a guest of mine named Steve Keller who’s the sonic strategy director at Sirius XM. And all of their properties. So he has an advertising agency called Studio Resonate and Studio Resonate did something for propel, which is a sort of Gatorade like drink before the pandemic. And they had people at DJ stations listening to sounds, regulating it by an iPad and tasting the drink at the same time and they could dial in how sweet they wanted it or how salty they wanted it. And you could see like Steve was telling me he was watching their faces while they were doing this and they were all like amazed like it’s the same drink, what the heck is happening? Right? I think Becks – I believe it was Becks – just did a beer commercial about making the beer more or less bitter and they had a DJ that was not all that far away from the person sitting at like a sofa or something, and they had headphones on listening to what the DJ was creating and they were tasting the beer and experiencing a different taste by what they were hearing.
So it’s just really fascinating how everything works together. Our brains are very strange and we’re still learning. It just tells you that well, I guess I’m taste in general is going to be subjective anyway, but it does make me think, you know, it’s just completely, it’s not objective at all taste, I suppose if given that example, yeah, I mean, you know, even our hearing isn’t really, you know, objective, everyone feels different vibrations and it’s a different, a different sensation, a different motion, depends on your upbringing, what things will mean to you, you know, and different instruments in different parts of the world, for instance, mean different things. So it’s all very subjective. Um, I think when people are trying to understand how their voice sounds to outside people, the best way to do that isn’t just to listen. I think if people want to understand how they sound objectively to other people, then they need to record themselves and listen to themselves back from that recording because that recording is about as objective as you’re going to get otherwise.
It’s really hard to be objective with sound. How many times have you heard that? I don’t like listening to my own voice then?
Oh yeah, yeah, a lot. In fact Cynthia, part of the reason that she’s regularly employed is exactly for that reason. Are you an exception to that? Do you like listening to your own voice?
You know, admittedly I kind of am but you know, I’m used to it and I’ve been hearing it all my life and the thing about voice over is that it’s not about having a beautiful voice, it certainly helps. I mean it can help, but sometimes having two beautiful voice means that you’re a little less able to be more informal if that makes any sense. So being less formal can get you a lot of commercial jobs these days, because people always want authenticity and having a beautiful voice can sometimes make you think, make people think that you’re less authentic and it’s not true, but you know, perception is everything right?
So having to deform allies, my voice is a lot of what I’ve had to learn, so it can make things harder. It’s kind of like having DJ voice, you know, DJ voice sounds good, but it’s not necessarily sounding authentic. An interesting thing about this conversation is you are the voice over artists and the platform that we’re on right now is kind of like the person can quite easily listen to what you do and think, yeah, that would be that would be a good person to do the voiceover work. Do you think that’s kind of cool. I think it’s great. You know, I’m happy to to work for anyone that needs my help, but as far as like anyone else who wants to get into this, I don’t think that you necessarily need to have a lovely or gorgeous voice. You really don’t because it really is all about what you do with it, not how you sound necessarily because reality is more attractive to us.
Then put on that’s that whole authenticity thing, right? So that’s important, authenticity is really where everything is right now, you know, and anyone younger than me, which is a lot of people their B. S. Meters are so high right now so and I totally don’t blame them. So being authentic is really super powerful and super important right now. You mentioned the pandemic in your previous answer, how has that changed your work or your business? If at all? Well I’m still doing the same thing that I was doing before which is I’m working from my home studio with a booth and remote ready. I have things like source connect I. P. D. T. L. There’s all sorts of ways to connect remotely with anyone I want to work with in the world. So that’s been fantastic and hasn’t changed. What has changed has been that a lot of the studios that were rebelling against doing remote work had to sort of bite the bullet and understand how it works and that it isn’t any worse than having someone in the studio.
The only difference is no catered lunch really. I mean, you know, I wouldn’t be eating it anyway. I’m working. So you know, and they could still have the client come into the studio, they just don’t need me there. You know what I mean? Like I don’t need to be there. So, and it’s a much more efficient use of my time if I am with them in a session for two hours as opposed to having to spend two hours to get to their studio, spending two hours and then having to take two hours to get back home like that. As far as use of time is not a very efficient way to do things. So it makes it easier on a lot of people. But I think also during the pandemic, a lot of particular industries slowed down so automotive slowed down. Um, a lot of retail slowed down because people weren’t going into stores, tourism and travel certainly slowed down. So that kind of like died the death for a while. Um, casino work that dried up too because no one was going into casinos.
Right. So a lot of what I ended up doing was more in the financial and tech and um, insurance and housing, um, and health care, you know, these things just boomed, they just exploded. So I did a lot of that and it certainly kept me going, um, a pretty nice basis actually To the point where 2020 was actually my best year ever. So, you know, I mean not to say that like I understand that people are going through tough times and, and I get that and I, you know, not everyone has the luxury that I have of working from home. So I’m aware that I’m very lucky as far as that’s concerned and just very grateful. Well positive. No, anyway you did mention about your business also I think you said you were I’ve got that you were an introvert, would you say that’s accurate?
Yes, very accurate. So it says there’s a difference between being shy and being an introvert do you like talking about actually because I think a lot of business owners think that they have to be out there and extroverted to be a successful business owner and you really don’t. You don’t. So what I would say is introversion, extroversion. These things have to do with how you regain your energy and what it means is that extroverts start with no energy and they build it as they spend time with people. That’s how they regain their energy, that’s how they get excited, that’s what empowers them, it’s what makes them feel good and I really feel bad for extroverts right now and in the past year because it’s been really hard for them and I get it. Us introverts, we’re living our best lives right now, like I got to say so when it comes to introversion we start out the day with tons of energy and it depletes as we spend time with people or do certain things so our energy goes out to people.
Um I think it makes us pretty empathetic because we feel a lot of what the energy is around us and we invest a lot in that and that’s why it drains our energy. So at some point I need to escape, I need to back away and just say okay just give me an hour, I’ll be back, you know and then take my time and replenish my energy and then go back out and share. But that is definitely a difference between the extroverts and introverts and introversion. Having to do with how you regain your energy isn’t necessarily about being shy. So yes, you totally can be shy even as an extrovert, you can be shy. it’s something that I definitely had to fight against when I was a lot younger and I think as as I get older and I stopped caring as much about what people think of me because I think that that is a big factor when it comes to a lot of things.
Then it becomes a lot easier for me to play to my strengths and book my time in such a way that I have those moments to back away and spend some peaceful time by myself to replenish before I go on to the next thing. So I typically leave myself at least a half hour in between appointments or sessions with a client if I can do that because I need that replenishing time. But I know that about myself now and I can program that into my calendar and people who are extroverts, they would need to plan in the same way, just in the opposite sense. So after this conversation, you and I need to take some time out basically is what you’re saying. Yes, probably. Yeah. So are you an introvert as well? Yeah, pretty much. And I have seen some funny kind of memes on the internet about introverts when lockdown is being opened up again. It’s like, oh no people, oh, I know, I know, but you know, like double whammy, I’m a gen X so like uh, I trained all my life for this, you know, being at home and eating string cheese, I mean like I grew up doing that, you know, tang, I don’t know, every bad thing that you could possibly do growing up as a kid, you know, playing in dirt, like, I don’t know, like we, we did everything latchkey kids, you know, So being alone was never really a problem.
Well, there’s also a little bit on it, outsourcing, so it’s a bold statement how outsourcing has saved my life. Well, I, I will say that probably people can outsource way before they think they can. So one of the things that outsourcing has done for me, especially as an introvert, it’s allowed me to have those peaceful times in between things because I can safely hand off some things, let other people do them, let other people worry about them and take my piece and for me that is worth paying for. And it also allows me to focus more on what I do really well, which is the voicing, you know, that’s my that’s what I love to do. That’s what I could do all day, every day, The more time I have to do that, the more money I make, right, So, you know, just putting it out there, the more that you can pass off to other people, the more you can do what you are really good at, and if you’re not wasting your time doing stuff that you’re not all that great at and that you don’t even really want to do in the first place, your life is just so much, it’s just so much better.
It’s a lot less stressed. And I think that a lot of people wait until they’re making a ton of money before they can outsource. and what I would say is you don’t need to be making a ton of money, that’s what’s going to help you make a ton of money and you know typically outsourcing doesn’t cost you as much as you think it’s going to, so just look at the things that you do in your day that you don’t really need to be doing, could be bookkeeping, it could be outsourcing marketing to new clients, you know figuring out who to write to. It could be sending emails, could be any number of things that you really don’t feel like you want to be doing and you can get someone to do that for you know an hourly rate that’s a lot less than you should be charging. And it’s totally worth it as an example of that. Do you do your own audio editing or do you outsource that for my voice over business?
I do, and the reason that I do is because most of what I do is five minutes of finished audio or less. In fact, almost all of it is at this point I’ve patterned my business that way. So for me it’s not that big a deal to edit that kind of stuff, but when it comes to the podcast, I definitely have an audio editor because every time I do an interview it’s an hour long and I just don’t want to do that, I just don’t have time for it and I don’t want to do it. So I have someone who does that for me, he’s really, really good at what he does and he loves doing it, so happy to pass it off. He helps me do what I he helps me do more of what I love to do. And do you have any advice about where people should go to to outsource? There are a bunch of resources that you can look for online if you’re not you know what social media is a good place to look as well, because there are often, for instance, Facebook groups that do have Facebook groups specifically for outsourcers.
So find these groups and ask in the group who has this area of expertise and you never know who’s going to get in touch. And you could meet some really fantastic people that way. There’s a whole bunch of resources out there, You could search google, like it’s a simple search, it’s really not a difficult thing to find. The thing that you need to be aware of is that your way of doing things may not necessarily jive with certain people, so you need to figure out how you work with certain outsourcers. And the only way to figure that out is to try them out. Maybe like a trial basis of like a month or two months or something like that. Like just understand that it may not be perfect the first time around and you will get to the perfect person as you go. Yeah, I actually I had some editing work that I wanted to get done and I think I hired Like four different people and I actually found one really good person and the rest didn’t really work out for me.
So kind of exactly what you what you just said. But that’s a great idea. You know, hire a few people at once and see who really works out. You never know. I mean you’re still paying them. So it’s not like it’s free work or anything like that, but it is worth finding the person that gels with how you work Tony what your goals my goals are to help people understand how important sound really is in their business. I think a lot of people use it as a afterthought. They just don’t give it much thought at all. And I think it’s a lot more important than people think it is, especially now because we’re inundated with the visual and there’s all sorts of voice ai and you know, google home and Alexa and all of these things coming out that are audio only. So think about that. How do you differentiate your brand when all you’re doing is hearing You better get on that now because 20 years down the road is too late.
Have you got any predictions or future thoughts about how audio is going to play its part? Oh, you know, I think podcasting is only going to get bigger. That’s a huge thing and and I think it’s going to get larger. I do think that in a lot of sense is it may end up going the way of the celebrity because that’s starting to become a thing. A lot more celebrities are getting into this and I mean all the power to them, it’s certainly makes people more aware of podcasting. I do think that even if Alexa and google home or not, the end of where all that goes, that there will be more of that smart appliances, you know, all sorts of things in our home that will talk to us. I do think that the medical field will start using our voices and the meta tags in our voices to understand if we’re well or sick. And I think that that is actually a really good thing. I think that could help a lot.
There’s all sorts of ways. I would really love to see the sounds in hospitals made to sound a lot less strident. I think that could help people a lot with recovery as far as being in a hospital for whatever reason, you know, needing to sleep, having the alarm’s still be alarms but not be so jarring that it actually is a detriment to your recovery. Think that’s really important. I actually have an upcoming interview with a fellow who’s working on that right now. So I would like to see that being a direction that people pay attention to, there’s all sorts of ways that sound influences us and heals us and it’s important and I think people need to pay the respect it deserves and understand that your ears are a miracle, like if you really look at what has to happen for sound to be perceived in our brain. All of the little mechanisms in there, it’s amazing.
It’s utterly amazing. And we hear things a lot a lot sooner than we see them. That’s the spectrum is so much wider. So I just, I feel that it’s not something that should be an afterthought. Yeah, I did speak to someone regarding the competition side of the various different media and text is obviously, you know, there’s no shortage of articles and texts on the internet. Video is, is massive, but at the same time, you know, extremely competitive an audio, you know, we haven’t quite worked that out yet in the sense that I think the example was like, if you go to google, there’s images, there’s text, there’s video, but there’s no audio tab. We haven’t quite gotten there yet. So I think it’s still pretty early if people wanted to get involved in the power of audio. Yeah, definitely. I’ve started working with a company called wit lingo and it’s what lingo dot com, they actually have some really interesting initiatives that they’re doing for.
I’m using it for testimonials. So on my voiceover testimonial page I actually have a carousel of audio testimonials and I have that on my podcast as well so people can leave actual audio snippets telling me what they like or don’t like about the podcast, what they’d like to see making comments. It’s actually really empowering. I hope to my audience because they get to actually say something and be heard as opposed to just writing it in a form. You know, it’s much more intimate and, and also I’m tying in clubhouse because I’ve started using clubhouse as a sort of a tie in to when I release my podcasts on Wednesday mornings. So Wednesday afternoons at two PM Eastern. And I also have a clubhouse room called the Power of Sound and we talk about all sorts of sound related topics for an hour and anyone shows up and I have panellists and, and we have a really interesting discussion and it’s, it’s interesting because I think that that is another way that the future of audio is going social audio is becoming a very big thing.
So Twitter spaces and I think it’s – oh my goodness, I forgot the one that Spotify just did green something, oh my goodness, I’m blanking. But yeah, there’s a lot of other ones that are coming up. Discord has its own thing, you know, there’s all sorts of social networks that are using the audio portion of that and that’s becoming really big.
Nice answer. So on topic do you have anything that you would want to add that you feel is valuable to the audience that I haven’t asked you about?
Well I would say that if you are looking for a voice actor that one of the places you could check is the World Voices Organization that is an industry association that has vetted talent. And these are all talent who have been professionals for a while, they know what they’re doing, they have good setups and they’ve you know they’ve been in the business so they understand how it works.
So that is a good place to check. It’s called World Voices and there’s also a guide like a rate guide that people could check if they wanted to for voice actors. It’s called GVA, The Global Voice Acting Academy. And they have a rate guide there that is a really good industry standard and what a lot of voice actors operate from. So it’ll give you an idea of what things might cost and you know how they’re usually split as far as timing is concerned and geography, how many places they’re being used and all of that kind of stuff. The medium that’s being used so television, online radio you know in a theater at a trade show like there’s all sorts of other different things so it will give people an idea maybe that’ll help you on these platforms.
I am on both. Yeah. Well I mean I use both. The GVA is a rate guy that you just see. So it’s not like I’m actually listed there but I do use it as a baseline for a lot of my quoting.
Okay. And where’s the best place for people to find you if they want to hire you personally?
While the best place would be my website, which is voiceoversandvocals.com. And if anyone’s interested in the podcast, they can go to audiobrandingpodcast.com.
Sounds good, Jodi. Thank you for all your answers today. A bit sad I didn’t get that song.
But other than that, you can always ask me for one.
I can give you one to put in here if you want, but I’d love a link. I’ll put it in the description, Jodi. Thank you very much for your time today.
Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.