Business Strategy With Faris Aranki

Thomas Green here with Ethical Marketing Service. On the podcast today, we have Faris Aranki. Faris, welcome.

Thanks Thomas, great to be here. It is great to have you. Would you like to take a moment and tell the audience a bit about yourself and what you do? Of course. So I, my name’s Faris Aranki, as you said. I’m actually the founder and CEO of a company called Shiageto Consulting which is all about strategy and emotional intelligence consulting. And I’m a reformed strategy consultant. I spent 12 years doing that before I set up my own company two years ago and a long time ago I used to be a schoolteacher. So I’ve kind of packaged all my skills into the work I do today with organisations and individuals to get them working better together and get them to all buy into the same idea. Lots of fun. And obviously trying to build that against the pandemic. That makes it even more of a challenge. Yeah. As if business wasn’t difficult enough.

Right, a couple of questions come to mind from your introduction. One is, if you were to summarise what strategy consultant is or what perhaps someone in that position does, it will be interesting to know. And then also because again, one question is too easy, so we’ll go with two questions. How did you after a long life as a schoolteacher, how did you go from doing that to doing what you’re doing now today?

Okay. Yeah, so what is the strategy consulting? Great, great question because strategy is so nebulous. There’s lots of words out there that are nebulous. Nick can mean lots of things basically. Strategy is about making decisions when it comes to a company is. What should we do? You know which products, which countries which you know, how should we expand when it comes to your own life is you know, should you go to the gym, should you focus on learning languages, should you? so you know, you set where you want to be and then the strategies, how you’ll get. Now as a strategy consultant, I was basically paid to have a big brain and work out answers to difficult questions for companies. Now I worked in the energy sector.

So a typical kind of piece of work would be a big company would say should we build a nuclear power station in China or should we build a hydroelectric station in India? You go away, do all the analysis, all the research and come and deliver what we should do and how we should do. That’s a strategy consultant. so 12 years of that. Lots and lots of reports, lots of research, lots of recommendations. And the reason I do what I do today is 9% of the time I deliver that report and nothing would happen and it’s it can be quite, quite soul destroying. but it’s fascinating why it doesn’t happen and that’s the world I operate in today. Getting people to buy into ideas. and I can tell you more about that, but so that’s that that for me is what a strategy consultant is, but as I said, strategy means lots of things to different people. And your second question about my teaching days and how I made the transition, I love teaching, I just realised it wasn’t a vocation for me, and you’ve got to be really passionate and the best teachers we should wrap in cotton wool, and they are super fantastic because they get up every day and it’s just what they want to do and they’re so fantastic and I really enjoyed it, but that wasn’t me.

And so I look to make the change into the business world and I naively just started applying for jobs thinking, oh I can do that, I can do that. And I never heard back from any of those jobs. and I was like, well it’s a bit weird, and then eventually I got one email in from some HR director, he said, look, you’ve just applied for a job in my company, I don’t understand you’re a teacher, so why are you applying? You’ve got no transferrable skills and really, really kind of jarred with me, right? Of course, got a transfer of skills, we learned from everything, but it made me realise that people don’t necessarily people pigeonhole and they don’t appreciate how one thing can support another. So I held myself, I had to go back to the start, was in my mid to late 20s and I joined a graduate scheme. So I started the bottom of a company during a graduate scheme, ended up in an energy company and then took off from there. So using your gym analogy regarding strategy consultant, or perhaps the plan where you presented to them and then nothing happens, you convince them to go to the gym, all the reasons why they should go to the gym and why it’s beneficial for them and then they don’t do it.

Yeah, and the reason why you went from employment being a strategy consultant to what you’re doing now is essentially getting them to actually go to the gym, getting them to use the equipment in the gym. Yeah, getting them not just to use it, but to buy into the idea that they’re so passionate about it. They don’t need me anymore, right? It’s their idea, it’s not my idea that it’s, you know, ideas are best when you build them with people rather than thrust them on and they’re best when you can pull them into them. And so they are inspired passion and they understand it, they buy into it and that’s when good stuff happens for companies, when there’s a lineman, everyone’s bought into it and then they fly. So I do think that would be interesting to explore because obviously that’s where your focus is now, but in terms of the difference between the gym analogy and then the is it the nuclear power plant example that you used? I would like to know a little bit about that because you know when you mentioned the gym, when I was like yeah I can answer that question and then the nuclear power plant and I was like I’m not sure I’d be able to answer that question.

So how would you go about doing that? So any kind of strategic decision you need to work out, what does it align? So I talk about vision. Where do they want to get to? So what do they really want to achieve? What is it about making more money? Is it about brand is about presence? Is it about the environment? So you’ve got to be clear with those. So you identify what their goals are. so then you take away the option. You listen normally you list out all the options and those might not be the only two options that might not be a nuclear power station. But if sometimes they give you the options and say can you assess these two. So it’s about doing all the research to find against the goals that are important to them. How each of those. now an economist and mathematician. So that will often involve assessing market prices, assessing level of competition in the market, assessing governmental oversight. So there’s lots of sort of methodologies and different categories to look at. But basically what you’re trying to do is unpack all those costs and benefits are fundamentally and assess them against each other. And if you do that in a structured and logical way, you should come to a conclusion saying A is better than B or B is better than a.

And that’s fundamentally a lot of the work that I’ve done for years. And sometimes, as I say, you’re given the options and sometimes you’re given a blank piece of paper saying, look, we just want to be the number one company in this sector. You come up with all the ideas, filter them against all the criteria that we’ve told you and tell us what the best options are. So when you let’s say work back from what it is that they want, presumably that’s just a question. So they say, okay, should we do X or should we do why? And you say okay based on what the end goal is or what you’re trying to achieve? Yeah. You know, what is that? Do you typically get a response which is like, they don’t know or they’re not 100% sure. Well, the best-case scenario they do know, but yet often they don’t know that they completely don’t know, they haven’t really thought it through, or different members of their senior team have different views of what that is. And so that’s again where I operate today, getting that alignment because companies can get fractured when, you know, the CFO thinks actually it’s all about profit.

But the CEO you know, the CEO is like actually it’s about brand, right? So having a slightly different skewer creates all these tensions. So, you know, I often quote when working with teams and say, look, the Great Albert Einstein said, look, if I only had one hour to save the world, I’d spend 59 minutes working out what the problem is, because then it’s easy and it’s the same when you set a strategy, if you haven’t really got a sharp vision where you all know which direction you’re going in. Once you’ve got that, it’s easy. So you said a lot of what you do is help people do that. All right. Yeah. And how do you go about helping people know what they want? Based on the fact that it’s subjective well, so it’s really working. So, you know, if I’m working with a team, I try and understand where they are today, what they what they think that they want and then I will individual meet with each individual to see how it brought up into that idea of their interpretation of whatever the company’s vision is. So then you can see just how far apart people I’d like to do a 15 word test, which is right down the vision in 15 words, was close to and then I overlapped them to see what commonality and what differences are.

And then it’s about getting people into a room and showing them the differences and showing them and saying, you know and having honest conversation, creating an environment where they’re all feel comfortable to say what they really want to say in the view and work through it so that they’re all aligned. So you know I always say however many people are in that room, they should all leave saying broadly the same thing so that if they met an employee or someone else in an elevator, they’re getting the same message back from whoever of the 6-8 people in that room is is one of the things which I’ve heard about leadership which is you sort of a good leader can get people, should we say working towards the same goal? Would you say that part of what you do leadership completely? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Getting people working towards the same goal is you know, I can talk about in my business and my business is structured and I have an equation which says success equals Q x E.

Q x Q. Q is the smart ideas, E is getting people to buy into those ideas. Getting on with people and the FQ is the focus that you need because you can’t be doing too many things now for me. Leadership is those three things, make sure you’ve got great ideas, make sure everyone is brought in. But also make sure they’re focused because if you’re sending lots of mixed messages you know I often say that people have 100 points of focus. Imagine you have 100 points focus and you say right I’m really going to focus on doing this today. Let’s say it’s going to the gym in a personal crusting. Now. What you don’t realise is you lose points of focus to distractions. All right. So if if you’re gonna go to the gym but you also have to submit a report you’re like you’ve really lost 50 points because your mind is going actually I still have to do this piece of work but I really want to go to the gym if you’re hungry. That also robs you to concentrate your mind like I really want a sandwich. You know you might lose another 20 points to hunger. So it’s a really good leaders. Also a conscious of focus and removing distractions for their employees and their teams so that they can just bring their best to whatever they need them to do. I like the formula E.

Q is part of what you do regarding emotional intelligence. Is that right? Yeah. So I spent a lot of time either bringing that into organisations or teaching them how to the leaders and the managers how to be more emotionally intelligent and because you’re doing this exercise presumably along you know multiple companies do you see some commonalities between what companies are trying to achieve? Yeah. See commonalities and what they’re trying to achieve and the mistakes that they make. So I used to work in the energy sector. I now work across industries and it’s fantastic. I love that because you can bring ideas from cross pollinate as I say across industries, but yeah, definitely every company wants to make more money once their employees to be happy. If you if you look at the situation right now Thomas, there’s obviously the covid and the pandemic is creating a lot of changes in business and then move to remote and hybrid working. Everybody wants to get that right, Everyone wants to get a place that just works as well as when they were all in the office, whatever, whatever that meant for them.

But what we’re actually seeing is you may have heard of a phrase called the great resignation loads of people leaving their jobs. and a lot that is driven by the dissatisfaction from how they’re working during the pandemic. It’s also other factors, there’s a shortage of labour and other materials, but a large part is their experience to work because a lot of people have taken their old, what I see in a lot of companies have taken that old way of doing stuff and just try to do it over zoom and teams and it doesn’t quite work like that. And I see that over and over. Any should we say typical mistakes or examples regarding that mistake? Yeah. So what I mean by that is so many managers, it turns out relied on actually physically seeing a person to manage them. All right. So if I was your manager Thomas, I’d say if I was seeing you every day I could check in how you’re doing, I could give you feedback. I could make sure you understand the task I’ve given you is very clear. But when you’re away I many people seem to forget all those things and just go, well I’ve said I’ve given Thomas a task. He’ll be fine.

And then they come and check in a week later and have you done the task now and then So you know what I teach is like you’ve got to you’ve got to refrain, you’ve got to start again. Right? So think of all the things you needed to do as a manager right and down and come up with a new strategy of how you’re gonna achievement. So imagine one of the common challenges that moment is new recruits, new people into teams. How do they learn when they’re not around people? So I often say to companies, right, take whatever your meetings say, you typically run half hour meetings make them only 25 minutes from now, Invest that final five minutes as the manager to then ring the person most junior in the team And give them that five minutes and say to them, did you have any questions from that meeting? Um, you know, here’s some of my observations of how you, your input into the meeting the first time you do, it will be weird. The second time might also be weird. But by the time you do the third time they got comfortable that this is the arrangement and they get to, there will be more open. They lost those silly questions because they’re not going to have the courage to then to bring you and say, I didn’t understand what that phrase meant.

Or so again, you’re achieving what you need to achieve it. You just need to think about it different, interesting and coming back to what you said regarding people’s outcomes. I did want to know if you come across what to say, someone’s outcome or what their vision is. Do you ever think it’s totally the wrong way to go about trying to achieve something or you know, an example of that might be, I don’t know, I want to be number one, number one company and they’re like currently number 100 or whatever it might be. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. So I’ll give you an example. You made me think of a situation. So I’ve brought in to help a small company and who were struggling with their vision, but they didn’t realise they were struggling division. They were struggling actually with their sales. And I said, okay, well what’s your vision? And they got all these documents. They showed me this vision, which was to be, you know, to help the world in the environment and you know and move into space technology or something.

And I said, okay, well now show me what you’ve been doing the last five years and all the work they’ve done had no correlation to what they said was their vision. And I said, so I read all these and I said, look, can I be honest with you? It has no correlation. So it’s very confusing to people who are trying to sell because you’re saying this, but actually what you’re doing is this. And I said, if I look at all the things that you do, the only commonality I can find is you just follow high income projects. So you just seem to be after money. And I kind of presented this to this, this, this senior team. They all looked around sheepishly at each other and they went, yeah, that’s exactly what we do. I said, and in my head, I was like, okay, that’s not what I would do to set up a company. But I said, look, it’s fine, right? The best thing is to be honest, that is what you want to do, that is your vision to be honest about it, maybe don’t write it. So brutally, like we’re only here to make money, but don’t create this other fake thing that you think people want to hear. Um, and um, and they all just felt a sense of relief that they could be honest with each other. And like I say, you know, go back to your question, it’s not what I would do and it’s not how I’d set up a company, but I long ago realised it is far better to have them passionate about an idea and one that they own me try and impose, you know, So in your example, If they want to believe they can be number one you know, let them let them do that, right?

I might challenge that, but I’m not going to shoot down their ambition. I would never do that. And Yeah, I do 100% know what you mean. And it is interesting how you can get into these habits where you’re saying one thing and doing something completely different and it just requires someone like yourself to come in and say this isn’t congruent with what you’re currently doing and a view, I mean apart from that regarding strategy, have you seen any other typical mistakes that people do? Oh loads, you know, even when your senior and your stuff and you’re very experienced, we all make mistakes, like you say, we play to our biases now I find it fascinating. My dad finds it fascinating. He still doesn’t really understand what I do, but I have one client who just pays me to chair a meeting for them once a month where I am there to call out biases and stop the meeting. So it’s not a classical facilitator role where I make sure they get through the agenda. I am paid to say, look, you know, john you’re talking too much and we haven’t heard from Sarah extrovert is winning over introvert or say, look, you’re all about to do groupthink, right?

Because that’s what teams do, right? If a senior person suggests something, a deer is thrown into the group and everyone kind of likes it. They’ll all follow it towards it without challenging it necessarily. Um, so I see lots and lots of things that we all do day in day out and I’m specifically there to go, just to bring you, make you aware you’re about to make this mistake or you’re about to exhibit this bias. Are you comfortable with it? And just stopping a team in their tracks. And they go, oh yeah, they might still go ahead with it. But at least they’ve been challenged now. I never imagined 20 years ago, I could be doing this, let alone somebody would pay me for it, but I think I can only do it nowadays because I’ve had 20 years’ experience. I have a few grey hairs and I feel confident stopping a room full of senior people when they’re in mid conversation. But yeah, there’re loads of mistakes out there and I think a lot of it is around the biases is around, we just go without challenging things. I always tell teams to leave by fact and try and you know, based things more data than on just their gut feeling.

Can you clarify groupthink in a business setting? What would that look like? So groupthink is where everyone, where somebody comes up with an idea. So let’s say we’re let’s say we die. I often do a lot of brainstorming sessions, so let’s take the let’s take the example, like we want to make loads of money, let’s come up with all these ideas. You know, we could move into China, we can build this new product, we can and suddenly someone will say something and people go, oh I like that, yeah, and they might not actually physically say, I like that, but there we go, That’s a good idea. And they’re all and then slowly everyone will well come towards it and I’ll be like home it. We were here to collect as many ideas as possible not to say which is the best idea not to start gravitating towards one idea. And even if we were to gravitate around this idea, are we actually assessing it against all the criteria you said, right, it just seems shiny and it’s a magpie thing and you’re all probably gravitating around it and that’s what groupthink is you don’t apply the same level of rigor. You kind of, you kind of go with an idea because you like the person who said it or you like the sound of the idea.

You don’t give it a full comprehensive assessment against all the criteria. And often groupthink because everyone else is doing it. I don’t want to be the only person not to buy into this idea. I’ve heard of the term echo chamber is that kind of around the same? That’s kind of the same thing. Echo chambers where the mind is understanding the echo chamber is where it plays the groupthink where you only hear more of the same. So you hear of echo chambers of social media in particular. So if current very topical vaccines or no vaccines, Marciano vase, if you are pro one of those things in your social media, you will mostly here pro things about it. That’s an echo chamber. So, really good people step outside their echo chamber in here. What’s the counter argument? Why should I maybe drop this idea? And that’s what you do in those types of meetings is to look out for those Yeah, I look out for those things and try and structure away, you know? So I often say if that’s happening, I’ll say, look, let’s do an exercise now, you kind of like old school debate team, you say, right, you three are vehemently opposed this idea.

You’ve got 10 minutes to prepare, all the reasons why this idea is terrible. And just giving the team an opportunity, they might still all go with the original idea, but at least they will then challenge it and be go actually, yeah, it is a good idea, but it has got these risks. Sounds like good fun on your part. Hey, uh, the number one driver of my business is fun. It’s a metric I measure every week. It’s the whole reason I set up. I was just getting a bit bored, a bit stale in corporate life. I love working with companies and I guess it’s partly the schoolteacher, former school teacher used to use a lot of games with kids and I try and bring as much of that fun and challenge into the professional world. Would you mind going into when you were an employee, how you transition from, from that into your business? Yeah, sure. So I was in a, I was in a place, was in a company that I absolutely loved, I loved the people, really great culture, really great place, just bit bored by the work and I would began working with a career coach and it was fantastic.

I highly recommend if people haven’t got a coach or, or someone that they can talk to external in their life to get one. So this coach really changed me around what I wanted out of a career, what I found important, which elements I liked, which elements I didn’t like and the more I thought about that the more I realised that I wanted to do something a bit more fun and continue to learn and I wasn’t getting that in my, in my old job. And so then I had a really difficult choice of, well I really love this place but I’m a bit bored by the work. and obviously I also had other fears like well it’s a good paid salary and you know, should I step away from this? And people like my parents thought I was crazy to just walk away, but it just grew and grew and it became clear in me in my mind, my own vision that this is what I should be doing? so but that journey took 18 months and then when I was finally ready, I was fully bought into the idea actually, initially I didn’t think of building my own company, I thought about looking for another company.

But that idea grew because I thought how fantastic to be able to build something exactly as you want it. So yeah, once I made that decision, I made the leap and I threw myself into it. And I learned a lot of lessons along the way, right? It’s the building a business is definitely a is a real challenge, but it’s a real learning experience and how did you get your first direct client? Ah that’s a really good one. So I’m a very I’m a strategy guy, right? So I treated it very strategically and what I mean by that is I mapped out all my connections and I kind of filtered them against criteria like how well did I know them, How senior they were, so how likely they were to buy something from me? How much of a problem did they currently have? And I kind of identified the top 10 people that I thought would be the ones I should get work from. And you know what happened? My first 10 clients, only one of them was on that list. My very first client, the direct client was somebody I ran a training course for was in a training course for I ran about 11 years ago for him. He loved the course, it changed his career; he learned something from it.

And when he saw that I’d set up a company, he emailed me and he said look 11 years ago you taught me some powerful stuff on this course that changed my career. I’m now really senior. I love that course, Assuming you’re still teaching it. I’d like to hire you to teach my juniors what you taught me 11 years ago now, I would never have seen that guy coming because I didn’t realise how impactful that session was for him, But the fact that he remembered me for 11 years. And then not only that had had reached out to me was fantastic, and I still work with him and his company nowadays, and you know, it’s lovely to be remembered that way. Yeah, 11 years is an awfully long time to like you say, you must have had quite an impact on him because even the most sort of, I don’t know, famous people that perhaps, you know, authors or motivational speakers or whoever it might be, I’m not sure, I would remember what they’d say 11 years ago. No, and it was funny when he said, he said to me, so, you know, the training I do is very it’s more doing than me talking at people, right?

It’s active learning is what I call it. So get people actually doing stuff. So he said to me, do you remember what you said to me 11 years ago? And I had, of course not, I say loads of things like, I don’t remember what I said 11 minutes ago, and I said, Why don’t you tell it to me? And it was one of the things I said. It was all about how to deliver difficult messages. And I said, look, when you’ve got a difficult message, just walk into the room rip the Band Aid off, the sooner you deliver the punch, the better you can then be super nice afterwards. And it was that phrase rip off the band Aid deliver the punch had stuck in his head because, and when I say we did active learning, I set up role plays where he had to do that. And I would, you know, just like I do now I stop him and go, what are you trying to do? This is not working, let’s try again. So he’d remember that experience had actually used it and he he said that’s how I deliver messages nowadays when they’re difficult. So, so yeah, you’re right. It’s very rare to remember something, but when it is that resonates with you, it sticks with you. Well, you never know 11 years from now. Whoever’s listening to business coming your way. A long time to wait though.

I was going to say that’s a slow sales cycle. But yeah, who knows. Yeah. So what was day one like when you went out on your own? Day one is exciting, is scary and nothing really happens on day one because you realise when you start a business, nobody is Googling you. And while you might have this fantastic guy who contacts you 11 years later, the real secret or the real epiphany is, is a small business owner, You don’t get anything out if you don’t put anything in. So day one is about that realization of that and it’s about planning and going, right, how am I going to do this? But then once you get all through all that planning and that could be, you know, what am I going to sell, what am I going to? You’ve just got to get going, you’ve got to get yourself out there in the market however you do it. could be door knocking, it could be doing videos, it could be going to conferences, but somehow you have to get out there, meet people and tell them what you’re doing and what’s great about that is the first time you tell them what you do.

It’ll sound clunky, right? You need to practice what you are selling and how you say it. And that only happens by talking to people because you can sit in a room and go, oh this sounds amazing in my head, but the first person you speak to go, that makes no sense to me. What is emotional intelligence? What? And you’re like, oh I need to rethink this. And even now two years in, I’ve probably told my story 10,000 times. I am still refining it based on the feedback I get from people. So That’s what running a business is like in day one and Day 1001. And when you left, were you on good terms? Was it awkward, nervous, or anything like that? No, I did leave on good to always leave through the front door. Not the back door. So much so that my old company is a client now I go back in and work with them, which is lovely. and actually several of my old companies, our clients but yeah, I always try and leave on a positive note. If not, try to win them back is my philosophy.

Yeah it’s the best way to be if you can retain your previous job as a as one of your customers. Are there any misconceptions about what you do? Yeah loads. You know my biggest fans and my biggest critics are probably my parents and they will probably watch this podcast and my dad would pull me up for saying that and they’re great because they’re books brought in but they also if they also asked the right questions they don’t understand because it’s not a world they know so they have a lot of misconceptions and that is a great test case and it’s stuff I see when I talked to more sophisticated, you know clients, actual people who are buyers one of the probably the biggest misconception is that what I do is very fluffy but actually it is fluffy but I am only brought in by companies not to make their employees feel better but to get tangible outputs. It just so happens that I make people feel better by doing it, I’d make them enjoy their work more but actually they’re not paying me for that, they’re paying me to get profits up or remove a problem.

And the other misconception is that they don’t need external help, right? What I say is one of my biggest challenges is self-awareness. Look, there’s very few senior leaders I know who ever admit that they were crap at anything, particularly not dealing with people and you most probably are, but there are some leaders out there that are pretty, pretty bad. And that’s the misconception that they can’t do with some support in that area because you know, you say, you know fundamentally, what do I do? I run meetings just in a different way and when I say to someone, do you want help running a meeting? And I know I know how to run a meeting, what you’re talking about. Don’t be ridiculous. So yeah, those are the misconceptions that it goes beyond just running a meeting or running a training session. It’s about getting people invested in getting people excited, which I used to assume everyone could do, but then realised that the whole reason I set up a business, it’s actually a skill that is severely lacking in a lot of business. Yeah, that’s one thing I was gonna mention to you regarding the emotional intelligence stuff and I heard from, I think one of my guests were like even the most senior people as you’ve referenced can have tantrums?

Yeah, they have no, or very little emotional intelligence. Have you got anything? What’s your best advice on perhaps implementing emotional intelligence if you if you are severely lacking, um, if you’re severely lacking, we’ll listen to your, listen to people you trust, right? The clues are all there in front of me. You just have to listen and that might be your best friend telling you something or your wife or your husband or your kids to become aware first of all. And then secondly, I think move away from so many of us, do you know the golden rule Thomas where you taught the Golden rule as a child? Yeah, of course it was. Uh, I mean I’m big philosopher or I’m aspiring philosopher. So yes, I’m very much very much love the Golden rule. Yeah. Well, I mean as kids, we would talk for me, the golden rule is treat others as you would want to be treated right.

And that’s great, right? But actually to kick on an emotional intelligence, whatever says is upgraded golden rule to the platinum one, treat others how they want to be treated, right? Imagine that. And the only way you can do that is by asking them all right? So start talking to people, ask more questions. Listen more. Those are the jumping off point for being a bit more emotional intelligence. One of the criticisms I think I’ve heard of the golden rule is, it’s only as good as the person who’s saying it. So rephrasing it that way might help a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, but we all like to think we’re angels. So we go, oh well, you know, golden rule works because I’m amazing. So that’s fine. But yeah, just park the golden rule, introduce the platinum, we’re gonna start asking more questions like it, Is there anything that I should have asked you today that I haven’t, I mean lots of things Thomas, but know this has been that this has been really good.

Probably should have asked where can you get this amazing mug? Well, you know, if, you know, have branded goods is the other side of being a small business owner. So if anyone works with me, they might get a mug. There’s a plug product placement, a product was what your goals, Farris? So my goals are to continue having fun to build a business around it. So I’m a small business today. I’d like to be a slightly larger business, but not too large with a with a nice team, an office and a wider portfolio of clients more holistically just continue to enjoy, You know, one of the aspects were I set up a business was to continue enjoying my life, right, and invest that time in friends and family. So those are all the goals for me really, it doesn’t get more complicated than that. You know, I should say solve Covid, but I’ll leave that to the smarter people out there, Thomas.

Having fun is a good goal to have, I like that. I haven’t heard that enough. So where is the best place for people to find you?

So if they want to find out about my company, it is called Shiageto Consulting. And so go to the website And Shiageto is S-H-I-A-G-E-T-O, or look me up, Faris Aranki on LinkedIn. They’re probably the two best jumping off points and always happy to have a chat.

Faris Aranki, thank you very much.

Thomas Green, thank you.