The Micro Business Economy With Danna Olivo

Thomas Green here with Ethical Marketing Service. On the podcast today we have Danna Olivo. Danna, welcome.

Thank you. Would you like to take a moment and tell the audience a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Sure, sure. I’m a growth strategist. It’s a business growth strategist. I focus primarily on solo and micro entrepreneurs. What that means is, it’s businesses that are generally 10 employees or less. They’re making under $1 million a year from napkin stage up to five years.

Okay. And the topic of conversation today is why are there so many failures early on? Happy to talk about that.

Sure. There’s a lot of articles out there that we encounter on a regular basis. When I started my business, I did a lot of research because micro and small solo entrepreneurs have always been on my heart as far as helping them. I’ve had two failed businesses in my past.

And when I did the research to find out the data, the statistics on that there weren’t a lot of data points that I could that I could draw on to help me determine what I needed to do. You know with my small business. So because of the failures, I said okay, there’s so many small businesses out there that are failing. But the ones that are failing are your solo and micro entrepreneurs, The small Business Association qualifies a small business as 500 employees or less. That’s not a small business. Those aren’t the ones that are failing. It’s the ones that are just starting out and primarily they are failing not because of lack of capital necessarily or lack of good leadership or anything like that. They’re failing primarily because they don’t know what, they don’t know. They are uneducated, they have a good product or service, but they don’t know how to build a business around that product of service.

And that’s what MarketAtomy is here to do is to help bring those resources to these entrepreneurs, these small business owners so that they can learn what they need to in order to growth successful business. Thank you for that. I did notice that on your website, on your podcast website, you did a book review of the myth and I always recommend anyone if they’re in that kind of position where it’s very, very young, always recommend that as a go to any thoughts on that that that spring to mind. Well, Michael Gerber, he’s got a revised version of that book, but he nails he nails it right on right on point as far as small businesses are concerned and the growth of small businesses and taking into consideration, not jumping from say a vision straight into building a website or you know, straight into something that’s going to cost a lot of money because you haven’t laid the groundwork as far as that’s concerned.

With MarketAtomy, we have an online learning academy called and the entire platform is built on a five phased approach to business growth and what that five phases, what those five phases involved is. First you see it, that’s your napkin stage. That’s where you see the vision you want to do this, but you don’t have a lot of details. You just, that’s something you want to do the next is you have to prove it. That’s where you go out and you find out are people willing to spend money to buy my product or service and how much competition is out there? And what is the price point that I can get for this? Is it worth my time and energy? Do we even pursue this business? And then we move into the building stage, That’s where you build your actual business, your systems, your processes, your team, you actually start building that business model and incorporating that’s also where you start making your revenue.

You can begin making your revenue menu move into the fund at stage. By the time the funded stage comes around, you’ve already started getting some revenue and you need that to go for qualified funding because there’s not a lot of equity funders out there or even investors, angel investors that will invest in a company that is not in revenue already and have proven systems. There are some of them that will do that, but at that point you’re looking at giving up a good part of your business for them to back you. And then finally, we move into the growing stage, that’s where you start growing your business exponentially, because now you have the money, you have the business model in place, a proven business model and now it’s easier for you to grow that business. So those are the five phases of growth that we work with our clients through the learning environment, through our accountability measures, which is, we have bi-weekly group coaching, we have bi-monthly mastermind programs because we feel as though not only do you need to learn and interact, but you have to be held accountable right, picking up on the second step that you’re referring to and also your initial research, have you got any thoughts or data regarding companies that get started?

Which are because this references the market research part of it. Companies that are proven, like, for example, someone goes into a plumbing business, we already know there’s a plumbing demand versus someone who is looking for a gap in the market where we really have no idea whether there’s a demand for that service and how that breaks down as the failure um, in terms of failure of a business. Yeah, definitely. If you get into an existing business, if you buy an existing business, their systems and methodologies that are already in place that you can take advantage of that are going to help you succeed in business. But again, my first business I bought from and it was an existing business that I bought and it was a ceramic business. I did not know a lot, I had grown not doing ceramic, but I did not know it as a business. And so there was a huge learning curve there. So again, if you’re going to buy a business, even if it’s a franchise, you need to have some of that business knowledge that marketing knowledge picking up on what you said about the two failed businesses.

What would you do differently now if you were in those businesses? What was the thing? Which I mean the topic of failure is very talked about on online and obviously some people don’t or try not to see it as a negative thing. But if you were to do something different and could identify where that failure occurred, what would you say?

I would say that my lack of knowledge of what I don’t know, I don’t know, is what caused me to fail after my second failure. What I did was I went back to school. My son was in middle school and I had a marketing background. I had worked 35 years within the architectural engineering, construction market in between those two businesses. Okay. I had a lot of experience on the marketing and business development side, but I didn’t have is the experience on the operational side and the financial side. So when I went back to college and got both my degrees in MIS. Which is database design because I wanted to be able to systematise a lot of things.

And then also in business marketing. Okay. So I learned a lot going back to school, but a lot of business owners can’t go back to school either the time commitment or the cat or the cost of going back to school. So that’s why I wanted to bring this through the four point as far as the e learning environment is. It’s the same thing as well that you’re learning the same things you’re going to in your college based courses. But the difference is it’s not going to cost that much now. The other thing is these college based, these courses that we are introducing through the learning environment is a two punk pronged approach. The way the courses are set up is there’s a learning component, so you’re learning about the subject matter but at the same time it’s followed by an experiential interactive component. So after you’ve learned you will have the tools and everything. You can sit down and you can actually put a plan together for your business rather than becoming shelf health, you’re actually planning and taking the time out.

Okay. Interested to know about the marketing background. Next, one of the things which at least in theory anyway if you can market your business if you are able to generate sales from it or for it. Even if you have a bit of a dysfunctional business, which one which is not operating all that well providing you can continue to get sales that business can continue. Whereas you know the operational side of things, I would think that you could perhaps hire people to do that. What your thoughts on that perspective.

Yes, definitely. Coming from the marketing a strong marketing background the way I am. Yes, you can make sales by marketing your business even if you if your business is segmented and it’s not really running efficiently. The problem you run into when you jump into marketing without having systems in place and things like that is you take the chance of losing those customers in the gaps within your company, you as quickly as you get those customers, you may lose them because you’re not meeting their expectations.

So it’s not that it can’t be done. The problem is that you haven’t identified who is your target audience and what are their expectations? I’m a firm believer that, that the, in the customer journey process and meeting those expectations at every touch point along the line. Now, those touch points, they extend farther than just the initial sale side. They extend into the operational side, the service side, the accounting side, the, you know, everything that is you got set up in within the business, because ultimately what you want to do is you want to turn those customers, those prospects and those customers into raving fans on the back end who ultimately become your free salesforce. Yeah, I’ve also, I find that if you are able to grow a business purely with marketing, the problems within a business can also grow. So it’s kind of like even if you do start succeeding the problems grow like scale with the, with the size of the business.

Exactly, because you reach those bottle necks, you know, if you don’t have the systems and everything in place, if you haven’t got a plan for carrying those customers through, there’s bottlenecks and that contributes even more so to losing those customers. There are some people who think that you should try and do as little as possible as the owner and start to delegate as quickly as possible. And there are obviously, the opposite end of that is that when you’re, when you’re right at the beginning, you’re almost doing absolutely every job role, because I don’t know either you feel it’s necessary or there aren’t funds to kind of hire someone to do it. Have you got any thoughts on the approach? The two approaches there? Oh goodness. Yes, as when you’re first starting out you’re wearing many hands. And what happens when you’re wearing many hats is you start suffering from what I call OPA. All right OPA is you become overwhelmed and then you become paralyzed and then you start avoiding the situation hoping that is going to take care of itself.

And by doing that, all you’re doing is you’re just creating more of a problem. So starting out there are four or five critical team numbers that you need to have and they can be, you know, virtual or you know, not necessarily employees, they can be, you know, partners, strategic partners, whatever. And that’s legal CPA accounting. You might need a virtual assistant. I have found that I have to really work with, I work with interns quite a bit because they’re eager to learn and they amaze me with what they come up with, as far as, you know, ideas and things like that. So there’s some critical things in on the legal side. You know, we’ve got, I don’t here we’ve got a program called Legal Shield. I don’t know if they have that over in the UK. Is that where you’re from, Thomas? Don’t they have that over in the UK? But legal shield is a monthly subscription and you have access to qualified lawyers to do simple, you know, project.

It’s something that small businesses and solo entrepreneurs can afford, interesting. So there’s a lot of things that you can farm out, even though you say you don’t have the money, you know, where I’m going with. This is by skipping those steps, those systematic steps. What you end up doing is you’re bleeding money because you’re spending money on things that have not been tested and proven. Well, you mentioned the reasons why you went back to college, have you got some, some main highlight areas in terms of, I know you said it was operations generally, but what are the main pain points for someone perhaps who has rushed into their business and they’ve got a skill set, but they don’t have a business owner skill set. Well, first of all, going back to college was a hell of a lot harder than more time involvement, everything. But what fascinated me, I went back late in life. So a lot of my team members, were much younger than me.

So they kind of looked at me as the leader of the groups, you know, and in my college, which was University of Central Florida, they had implemented a system to wear in your upper classes, every single class that you had you had a team environment so you had to meet with them as well on the outside. So that’s why it was just so hard. But what going back to school had done was that had forced me into an environment where we were actually building virtual businesses. So we were having a problem solved while we were working as a team, which was really fascinating to meet because I learned so much through that. And then what happened is I also realized, okay originally I went in under my business marketing degree and realize there’s so much competition out there. I said I had set myself aside apart from my other marketing majors, that’s why I went from IMIS degree, the database design. The great because at the time that’s databases is like so now I’ve been able to take that experience and build my own system, my stand alone system to help my business.

So are you are you happy with the decision to go back into college? Do you feel like it was worthwhile? I do think it’s definitely worthwhile right now. At the time I didn’t have a MarketAtomy when I did it at the at the time that I was in business myself I mean my second business was taken right out from underneath me people that I had trusted. You know that type deal. So yeah at the time I didn’t have a market out of me. If I had a market out of me when I was in business I probably wouldn’t have failed the second time. So I would have known to bring in those specialists that I need. I would have been able to get the education so I could find funding that type deal. The you mentioned the second business. Was that I mean the only kind of experience I have in relation to, you know, the person who starts the business who gets fired from the businesses, like the Apple scenarios.

So is that kind of like a board?

It is, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And at that time I had had an accident and everything and I was tired and I said, okay, you just take it over, you know? Yeah, it didn’t last very long after I left. Yeah. So what would you say to someone who, well, to ensure that that doesn’t happen? What do you say to someone? Well, there’s definitely ways that you could set up your board, board of advisors, directors, whatever. but the critical thing is setting up your shares and I’m not an expert on the legalities of it or anything like that, but you never want to have an equal share split. Okay. If you’ve got partners, which I had partners at the time and it was 50/50 okay, you don’t want that because it’s easy for someone to take over. What you want to do is you want to set aside some for your funding partners.

Should you bring on at least 30% of your shares should be set aside for funding partners. and then definitely you want to hold a controlling interest if it’s your company, you want to hold a controlling interest. So just ways that you can protect. But like I said by far, I am not a specialist when it comes to yes, it’s lessons learned I’ve learned. Well, I think I might be wrong about this, but I think that Mark Zuckerberg has like 51% of Facebook and says he’s never going to sell that. And that’s exactly majority share. That’s exactly it. And you’ve got your founder stock and you’ve got a regular stock, okay? You’re founder stock. You don’t split, you keep it, you know? It’s just the other ones, if you, if you slip frocks stocks or whatever, your founders don’t want their split. So you’re, you graduate, did you create a business during college or was it when you got out? And what did that look like? Nope? When I, when I graduated, I went back into the EC industry.

The reason I had gone back to school was not necessarily for business, okay. To start my own business. The reason I had gone back to school was because I had reached the level within the architectural engineering, construction market, that I couldn’t go any farther without having my degrees. Okay. So I went back to school to get those degrees so that I can move up the ladder within the E. Z. Industry. What happened is when I went back, I was able to move quickly through the industry to the point where is by the time I was laid off from this construction management firm, I had worked through every logistical cycle within the EC environment including before and after market the products, product development side, the spec development side, the design side and the construction side. So what happened is when I was laid off from this firm in 2009, the entire country was going through this recession that has hit everybody, especially the AZ industry.

And the only country that was coming out of the recession faster than anybody was resisting. And that’s because first they were a cash country at the time and secondly, they had just won both the FIFA games and the summer Olympic games. And so I knew what was getting ready to break loose down in Brazil As a result, what I did was I positioned myself to go into Brazil to create inroads for companies here in the U. S. That were struggling that wanted to break out internationally but couldn’t afford to do it on their own and I would represent them at the sales table and get them into Brazil so that they could create those relationships with Brazilian firms in preparation for the games. That is a that is a major, that is some serious learning experience, forward thinking there. What gave you the idea or the insight to do that? Well there was really you know, I had to decide do I want to get back into the rat race here like you said, you know you’re middle management were jumping around, I was a marketing director, I was business development director and in this industry everybody was jumping around, everybody was jumping around and the industry was really suffering.

I think the construction and design industry suffered the most during this last the last recession. And so I didn’t want to get back in that rat race and I happened to be introduced to a friend of mine who was Brazilian and plus I as a strategist, I do my research, you know I do a lot of market research and everything so I knew what was happening. And so having this Brazilian friend helped me navigate going internationally into Brazil. It was definitely a learning experience. I went with the U. S. Commercial Services and on an outbound mission we went into some Holla for two days to meet with the planning team for the FIFA games. And then we spent three days in Rio talking about the Olympic games, meeting with the Olympic team at the same time I found a representative down there actually I never here in Orlando and she met me down in Brazil.

She used to be an ex congresswoman and for Rio and so she had a lot of inroads. She was 81 years old at the time and this woman, I hope I have half the energy she has When I’m 81 years old. But she I would go down there about four times a year, spent about 34 weeks each time meeting with clients, you know talking contracts, things like that. And she would get me into a lot of the, through a lot of the gatekeepers by going to the parents of the people who wanted to meet and that’s why she was able to get through the gate keepers. So is that that was a formed business would you say? Yes. Is that still around that business or? No. I rebranded its market adamant. Yeah, I rebranded, it was Donna LLC at the time and I rebranded in 2016 as MarketAtomy. And that’s your online course platform.

It started out as strictly consulting. Okay. But with coded, I always wanted to put it online. But with Covid it kind of pushed that timetable up because when Covid started a lot of my one on ones and my seminars and things like that, I had to stop. So I took advantage over the next 16, 18 months to build the online environment. You do, do you still do consulting? I still do. Yes, but I like the fact that, you know, I can get them to a point where they understand a lot more before they come to me because I was wasting a lot of time going over simple business, you know, technique education and things like that, that they can get through these online courses. So by the time they come to me, they’re more prepared. And so what does, I guess it’s sort of covers what I asked previously, but I mean, what does the typical inquiry look like for you? What is it that people struggle with the most usually most of the time, what it is they have reached stealing, okay.

They hit a ceiling that they can’t seem to grow any part of and they immediately think, okay, my sales team isn’t doing their job or you know, or something is going on, but they don’t know what it is. this business health check assessment that I have developed as a result of the onboarding questions that I would ask my clients right from the very beginning, it’s a series of about 100 and 20 questions that cover, like I said, 20 different KPI s and what that does is it reveals to me where they are in their business and by doing that, I can pretty much tell when and where those gaps are and where we, where our starting point is and this assessment right now it’s just a basic assessment that scores and things like that. But the next phase of it is going to go into an Ai incorporate Ai so that as the answer, it will take them on a different journey. So essentially their current thinking has got them as far as they can go, right?

Usually when they focus, when I said that the 20 KPIs are interdependent, that is critical for small business owners to understand, okay, when you come to me and you say, OK, my sales are dropping. I don’t understand why. I think my sales team are not meeting their goals. We need to overall our sales team. My first comment to them would be, are you sure it’s the sales team? Because the sales team depends on the messaging. It also depends on your marketing materials. It also depends on your pricing and your product viability. Product or service viability. So we have to look at all those interdependent relationships between those KPIs to make sure that it’s not one of those other areas or a combination of all of them. You can’t just put the blame on your sales team not meeting their goals. You also have to look at the team. Maybe they’re not in the right position. Maybe you’ve got the wrong people out there selling you, You touched upon the going into Brazil almost early.

Have you got any thoughts about what where the opportunities are today? Mm hmm. Well, you know, honestly, my personal opinion is I think they’re coming back to the U. S. In all honesty. Okay. But again, with Covid, it’s hard to determine that every country has got its downfalls. I work with the UK quite a bit. I don’t necessarily like working with China or I work a lot with India when it comes to where we’re going. I think we have to look at the fact that we’re going more internationally, but more on a virtual basis. Okay. I’m getting a lot of my programming, my coding, everything. I’m getting through the gig economy. They may come out of India, they may come out of the UK, they may come out of the Panama, you know, the gig economy has grown so fast and a lot of your larger corporations are realising that they don’t need to bring back employees.

They just assume deal with the gig economy, create those relationships with those experts out there and do it on a per project basis, which is more feasible when you think about it, you know? So if anything looking forward, I don’t think there’s so many countries or anything like that. I think it’s going to be more across all borders with the virtual environment and dealing with people on a freelance basis. Almost. Exactly. Exactly. And you can create relationships. I’ve got people that I’ve worked with on Fiverr, on Upwork, you know, different platforms that I’ve gotten to know and I know, okay, if I need copy development, I’m going to go there when you think about it. Okay, you can hire a copywriter here, but it’s gonna cost you a couple of 100 $300 to get copy, create a copy done. Whereas you can go to Fiverr or Upwork or another gig economy and I can get it for $40 is just as good.

It’s just as good. The problem we’re going to have here that I see in the US. Okay. And I don’t know about the UK yet it’s twofold. First of all our education system because of Covid. Okay. We were having a problem with our education system to begin with. Alright, Because of Covid, I think we’ve taken several steps back as far as our kids and their ability, because not all kids can learn virtually. And so they lost a good half a year to nine months trying to learn virtually. And that’s not their forte. The other thing I think is we need to be introducing the aspect of entrepreneurship in middle school When these kids are, you know, 10, 11, 12, they need to start learning some of these entrepreneurial aspects, you know, these skills, so that when they get into college or when they graduate from college, they are not only stuck with finding a corporate job.

You’re gen years, your gen X-ers, you know, all of them, they’re not going into corporate America, their remaining in the gig economy, their remaining freelance. Yes, I’m going to say it’s a critique of the education system is that it produces employees. It is. So if you were to have to start today, I know it’s a hypothetical, I don’t expect for one moment that you have to restart, but for those that are starting, what would you, what would you do? Oh, well, let me take you back first to this time before I rebranded his market at me when I told you I went down to Brazil. one of the things that I’m adamant about is you have to have a strategy in place because when I went down to Brazil, I was down there for about four years, about 3.5 years, and I was hit by a rapid bus down in Rio, crossing the street to my apartment, which ended up, basically, I was in and out of surgeries and everything for the next eight months, nine months.

Well my business pretty much halted because it was just me. Yeah, yeah, so but the good thing that came out of that is while I was recuperating this is where I had people who were in the EEC industry with me and had to start their own businesses because they couldn’t find work, were coming to me saying dana, what am I doing wrong? I can’t figure it out, you know, I’m bleeding money, you know that type deal and in the process of trying to work with them, I found out they had no idea how to build a business around their product or service. So in an effort to explain it to them is where we came up with, I came up with MarketAtomy the concept guys and the MarketAtomy concept is, and this is something that I think all business owners when they’re starting out need to understand, okay, the overall concept of a successful business other than the five phases that I had indicated earlier. Okay, think of your business as a human circulatory system or a human being.

You guys the heart of your business is your wife, Why do you do what you do? What is it that you want your customer? It’s your passion. Okay, what is it you want your customers to walk away with the brain of your business? Are all your is your playbook, It’s your strategies, it’s your product or service offering. It’s everything that makes up the business now in the human body, can the heart operate without the brain? Now you need a boat and the same in business. You need them both in order to push your marketing message out through the veins for the channels of your company to your body, which is your market, your niche market now, think take it one step further. You as the business owner are the soul of the business. You set the culture, you said, you know the dimensions of what your company is going to be and how people are going to look at that company.

And so it’s important that you remain ingrained in that company and not up here in the sea level. Where’s your out of touch with who your customers are? So if you keep that visual representation in mind what you soon realizes, you can have the best product for service in the world. But without customers, there is no business marketing principle. You’re not in the, you know, in the business of XYZ. You’re in the marketing business, you’re in the business of getting customers. But we’ll follow up because for those that for those that are thinking what business should I go into? I’m not sure I got an answer for them. Oh I’ve got a book that they can get from Amazon Only $3. Okay. It’s called MarketAtomy. What to expect when expecting a business and it gets into the MarketAtomy concept. But basically what this book is, it talks about how there’s an entrepreneur in every single one of us.

We just need to identify what it is. We all do something unique. It’s just a figure. It’s just to figure out what it is. I also had an interview with another podcast guest the other day and her book is still your skills from corporate and what that is basically through all your corporate years. If you’ve been in corporate America for a while and you they pay for your education, they pay for your certifications and everything. Those are skills you can bring into your business, interesting. Well, Yeah, high price point there. $3. Yeah. I think you’re probably pricing people out of the market there. It’s meant to just kind of get you thinking, you know, I’ve got five books out on amazon right now. The latest that just dropped is called Social or sociopathic and it’s a co-authored book and basically it talks about now that we’re in the virtual environment.

The social sociopaths have come out of the woodwork trying to take advantage of that virtual environment to get you to spend money on skill set, but they don’t necessarily have and you don’t find that out until too late. So this book talks about how to avoid those and how to build a credible presence online so that you don’t get hot in that social sociopath sounds serious. Yeah. Any examples, not necessarily names, but any examples that you can think of by industry where there’s social sociopaths. Yeah. Well, the political election here that we just went through, you know, that’s another one. Your fake news, you’ve got the fake news and you get you get wrapped up in that. all of that is what we call sociopathic. They’re trying to build themselves up there trying to show that, you know, they’re trying to build a credible presence around a fake story for bragging is what I would call it.

All right. So, yeah, our political our political thing that we just went through what’s full of it. Well, I look at a lot of that as procrastination in a way, or at least it’s a form of it, because if you are, let’s stay focused on what you’re trying to do, if you’re focused on your business, any attention around politics is in a way detrimental to what you’re trying to achieve because there’s a rabbit hole there that never ends. And instead of working on your business, you’re looking at the latest news around policy. That’s exactly it. Even going down to Brazil, Okay, when I first started going down to Brazil, I had all of my colleagues, everybody was telling me, you don’t want to go down there, they don’t respect women, you know, you’re not you’re not going to make it down there. And like I said, I had somebody who had experience with Brazil, so I said, well, we’ll find out, I get down there and the people are absolutely wonderful. Yeah, yeah, you have your dangerous areas like the favelas down there and everything that you have to kind of steer clear of.

But I had enough people down there that kind of told me, you know, steer clear of these areas. But if you’re here you’re doing good, you know that type deal. But the news back here is reporting about everything going on in the favelas. At the time they were going through the what’s the name of it? The police and the government were fighting against each other. I can’t remember what it was called, alright. And all they hear back here in the U. S. Is all the infighting and everything else that’s going on with the government and everything. And I kept telling them guys don’t pay attention to the media so much. I said you know the media over exaggerates a lot of things. You have to do your research. You have to find out. You know, I went down there for four years other than my bus accident. Yeah. Have any problems, you know, and the people I interacted with governors, I interacted with senators. I interacted with oil magnets. So a lot of them were very eager to work with, especially when you’re bringing in new technology south.

Have you got any thoughts on exit strategies? So I know that you have other systems and or you know what you thought that spring to mind now? You should have one. You need to have an exit strategy. You need to have an exit strategy early. It doesn’t mean it can’t change. But consider the fact that if you were to take a trip safe in Florida to California, All right. Wouldn’t you map out where you’re going to stay the night what the route is? You know, things like that. Your exit strategy is California. It’s the same thing with business in order to plan and strategize the growth of your business, you’ve got to know, what are you working trails if you’re going to, you know, for instance, my platform, my business health check platform, the ultimate exit strategies, I want a white label it. Okay, so it’s going to be a product that’s going to be wobbling. Okay, my business. How so do you even pass on to my kids? Uh huh. You know, we’ll see, I may sell it.

I may be, oh,  you know, but right now it’s the pass it on to the kids. Okay. Yeah. Ultimately I want to get in front of Congress down the road. I’m starting the efforts. Now, I want to get in front of Congress, I want to pass a bill that will allow micro and solo entrepreneurs to be able to apply for incentives, government incentives. If they show before they get their business license, they have gone through a certification process so that they understand what is involved in and starting a business interesting.

Well, my next question was going to be about what your goals are, but that sounds like a pretty lofty, well worth goal. Anything else to add?

No, I think that’s it. You know, go to and you can go in and you can register and see there’s no cost to register and see the different courses that we have. We’re adding to those courses constantly. So we’re going to be bringing in new courses every time. Once you register, I will put you on a mailing list. So it’s a new course comes out we just push it out to you. You can make your decisions you know as far as that’s concerned. You can also reach me through

Okay, Danna, thank you very much for your time today.

Thank you. I enjoyed it.