Supporting High Achievers With Jan Broders

Thomas Green here with Ethical Marketing Service. On the podcast today, we have Jan Broders. Jan, welcome.

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

It is my pleasure. Would you like to take a moment and tell the audience a bit about yourself and what you do?

Yes, absolutely. So, my wife and I, we run a coaching practice together and we’re based in New York, Spain, Italy, Germany. We moved here about three years ago, 2.5 years ago and so we’re now a coaching practice. We have a couple of pillars of what we do. A big one is coaching and teaching other consultants coaches how to grow the coaching practice in an ethical manner and one that feels aligned with which their values however they want to do it. That’s, that’s a really interesting, but I’m sure we’re going to dive into that. We also do a lot around stress management, leadership development for companies with actually some quite large accounts like Mercedes or Cinco like a German company that we work with but also offer that for small and medium services companies and then just the traditional one-on-one coaching with leaders from companies, high potential entrepreneurs.

That’s just straight on coaching. Yeah, so there’s a couple of things that to follow up on there. Yeah, am I right in saying that the majority of your business is remote so you can do it from anywhere, is that right? Yes. So It used to be 100% remote. We travelled the world for over three years while growing the business. So it was anything we did have to be remote and we did that on purpose. Obviously I always wanted to, if I started my own business that needed to be remote because big point for me was I enjoy going to the office. It’s all right. Like I can be here in a way, but I don’t want to have to be here. So, so yes, it’s all remote. And these days I’d say about 90% of sources are offered remote. There’s a couple of clients here on the island. Uh, but especially with covid everything, much of what was in person like talks and workshops and stuff, It always moved to remote and um, it looks like it’s staying that way as well with companies offering to them pleased to, to work from home.

So yeah, remote work is something I’m passionate about for very selfish reasons. Yeah. You touched on the fact that, you know, it is, it has become more common and as a remote business, is there anything that you would want to share about best practices or anything that you found that works well? Um, yeah, so I think communicate well, let me see, like some general things will probably come up to mind. Come to mind here. What I noticed is communication again is a lot more important than with in person things because you don’t have this in between knots or reading body language or things like this are just our quickly clarifying something on the way to the bathroom or on the way to the coffee machine. So things like this, things definitely like super, super clear. Even some things that you would take for granted um, right, just like, oh that’s normal. Everybody does that. But now, maybe not somebody from another world, another industry or somebody who has never done this before, maybe from another generation, like things like that could, could be important and we were super specific.

Also our coaching agreements. Okay, what happens if there is a Wi-Fi that’s the steps to take, that’s the number to call? What happens if you’re five minutes later you’re 10 minutes late, Blah Blah. So we’re very, very specific just to cover all bases and not cause confusion. So I think this is super important and it’s an obvious one I learned from traveling to Southeast Asia and we’re not Wi-Fi is quite important. It’s an obvious one. But especially if you’re thinking about going like digital Nomad mode. Um, it’s to us, it was always like a half day job to get, get the logistics right and make sure it’s quiet into this good battle. All those things. So I think just like a technical setup, but it’s obvious. And I think there’s so many different areas when you ask that question, then it’s the whole self-leadership bid, right? How do you work on your own being responsible for your own time and structure of the day and so on. So that’s a whole different thing to talk about. I feel that some people struggle with, especially when it wasn’t by choice, they were just sent home and to work from home, but they’re really more the type of people that want to be in a group and love supervision, all those things.

I think that’s just like a whole topic. Okay, how do you lead yourself being responsible for your own time and output? Right. We’re just not used to that in a normal environment. Work environment. Well, you did say that you help with leadership development. Does that does that crossover? Is that separate topic? Well, we don’t really well we do I think the online work hasn’t really been a topic so much for for those people remote work, but it’s more general self-leadership. Yeah. How do you set a good example or how do you there we would speak a lot about leading from within. I would say, okay, what is who are you as a person and not even like leadership context first, but just who are you? What are your patterns? What are sort of like your soft spots? The buttons that could be pressed emotionally and the points where you don’t actually rationally and free, but where you’re being triggered and all those things and we speak about that a lot because that impacts the way that you lied in such a big way, you may be unjust to some people or you may not be communicating openly because for whatever reason somebody is afraid of the negative feedback or like all those things that could come into place.

So that’s a big thing of what we speak about the gaining awareness and consciousness of who you are as a person. And how does that affect us leader? Do you mind sharing some of the answers to those questions that would be applicable to you? Yeah, who am I as a person? Yeah. So I’m quite conflict adverse I would say. And so if possible I sort of ship around country. I don’t want to face conflict and that gets in my way all the time. All right. So I will really need to be aware of. Or am I just sending this medicine of calling another thing for a remote work? Right, Why not pick up the phone and have a proper conversation. Two minutes instead of sending cryptic emails back and forth where people can interpret between the lines what was said and get upset. And I noticed with myself I’m sending an email, why not just call this person? Oh, there it is again, right? My not wanting to face conflict or so. And so there’s something I know about myself and since I know it I can catch myself when I get into those, into those habits, right?

And another one is I really get excited about new things. So if there’s like a new project, oh my God, it’s amazing for the day. It’s just the best thing ever and that’s going to change the world and then the next morning it’s like, yeah, that sounds nice, but then it’s a new ideas like excited about that again. So, um, since I know about this, I just don’t interpret too much into my excitement on the first day I said, okay, let me just sleep at night over. It’s still exciting tomorrow and maybe talking further or knowing okay, the exciting my faith, but it’s still a good idea. So I just, you need to be aware that there is an excitement on the second day, but it will come back maybe on the fourth or fifth or 10th or so, but just knowing about yourself who you are, you can deal with those situations a lot better instead of them being frustrated. And I never follow up with things more decided and I don’t, right, Okay. But if you know that and you catch yourself then you can do something about it, just like with the conflict adversity that I have, I just wanted to be harmonious and, and what I love to do in coaching also with people, you can always use those things to your advantage, right?

There’s also strength within all these things. So I’m really good at conflict resolution with companies. So I go into companies sometimes when this conflict because I hate that, that there’s conflict and tension in the room and I just, I just wanted to be harmonious and so I’m good to find like diplomatic about things, find compromises coming around and get people back on the table and have them speak about it so I can use my weakness as a strength in those scenarios. Yeah. Would you say that people don’t typically do that introspection on their own? I feel the people are really successful. They do. I think that that really is the key to success in one way. People very successful. I know, wow, they’re quite self-aware, they know their weaknesses and they also admit their weaknesses. I feel people who are more in the, well they’re still successful in general terms, but some middle or middle high management also, but not bored or so. some of them like that and that’s the reason why they do not advance because they’re still being perfectionist about things.

So people pleasing, but that’ll get in the way for the last step of the ultimate career letter move or so. All right. So, some people, they may do it a little bit, but to be really successful, I noticed people aren’t fully successful. 100%. that’s usually wet legs. So to give people an idea what’s a typical inquiry look like for you when people reach out, right, um, uh, could be okay. I’m, oh, just recently won that. That’s a good one. Okay. A manager had a conversation with the, with the superior and you know, the VP or whoever that was and the manager said, oh yeah, this was like the, the yearly review thing. Um, okay, this year I was really tough. Yeah, I don’t think I did quite well. You never, you never really praised me. I never said anything that was well done. And then the pieces, wait, I’ve seen totally different was an amazing year and this and this and this is also all moments when I, when I said how good you were doing and how satisfied I am with you. And then they just realised in that moment, oh, he is so much self-doubt and insecurity about himself, that he couldn’t even see how well he was doing and didn’t even hear all that praise.

Right? And then they noticed, okay, that that they will get, it is getting in your way because you’re making yourselves smaller than you are? Why don’t we hire a coach and have him and you look at what’s going on, why is there so much insecurity because there is no reason for that, at least professionally. So it’s deeper. It’s on another level, Right? So that was that was the reason recent one. Another one could be somebody is being given a new team or is moving into a new role? And they said, okay, you’ve never had to manage that many people. Why don’t you get support and reflect what you’re doing, how you’re leaving and sort of look at yourself because it’s just a new role and it will be uncomfortable and you will have many questions. Yeah, that could be another one. Um, when I speak about the conflict resolution, could be current project we’re doing is between the owner of a company and the managing director. They’re just not getting along so well, they know it as well. It’s the team is giving the feedback a YouTube really need to get on the same page. It’s getting started to get annoying for all of us. And so now we have this program for the two of them.

Yeah. Regarding the second one of becoming a new leader. Have you got any thoughts on that that you would share? Yeah, so they’re really, it sort of comes back to the, okay, who is this person? All right? Like what, who is she, who does she want to be as a that’s a that’s a woman in that case. Who is you want to be and how does she see herself in that role? And then also just noticing, Okay, what is what is it? It’s been quite generally now because like what is coming up for her? It’s sort of a different difficult to explain more specific terms, but what is she nervous about, how is she dealing with feedback? Maybe specific situations? There’s she took over a sales team. We’ve seen very seasoned Sales people, men and she’s this young woman in her early 30s. Okay, how do you deal with them not being on board with you are criticising, You are just sitting there, you know, with their arms crossed and yeah, what, what does he have to say? And so we can reflect on those things and who she wants to be in those situations and regarding the manager not getting on with the owner.

What springs to mind there to me? That’s I think that’s what I want. And that’s interesting again, what you said. Okay, what’s for me? It’s the whole Ramona’s thing to me is very interesting because I dislike the Harmony, Right? So, I’m really passionate about this project and just with almost everything in life comes down to communication. All right. It’s just like, wow, you two really haven’t talked, haven’t you? It’s like if I was interviewing them separately, they could be speaking about two different teams to different companies. You wouldn’t think they work in the same place because they view the environment so differently and they haven’t really talked much about it. So, it’s really a lot about getting them on the table and having a conversation that is – it can be emotional yes, but at some point it needs to be a bit more rational and about the content, not just our but you said that’s not blaming all that, but it really always is about communication when it comes to those conflicts and that to me is just always fascinating. The solutions are quite simple. Yeah. In the end you both want the same thing, right?

It’s not like one wants to run the company to the ground and one once a successful business, they also don’t want the same thing but they haven’t really talked at all. Yeah, well you mentioned the remote thing is very important to get communication right? How does that vary if you’re in a physical office for example, what do you recommend for good communication? So what I’m noticing in businesses whenever we do team workshops, trainings or conversations like this, the conflict resolution bit, everybody always says, oh my God, this felt so good to talk and you really learn a lot about things. You learn a lot about the others and it was really good to talk about these few things. just tiny bits, how should we handle this situation? How should we have an inquiry like this inquiry like that? It’s really good to talk about those things. That’s what people are saying and it’s so obvious and then but it never happens because everyday business like the operate operational, everyday business is just always more important than taking a step back looking like a bird’s eye views of you of what we’re doing?

So again, the most simple thing is to have a time schedule time away from, we need to talk about this case, but just general communication time, however you want to call those and actually stick to them because oftentimes the first thing that’s being dropped, it’s like every client calls more important in the moment, but it’s just oh yeah, those general meetings but actually have time to converse and to speak without a specific day to day topic because that’s what everybody speaks about, right? How should we handle this case? All this customer complaint, oh my God, we need to act fast like the house on higher, like we always talk about those things, but never about more general and that’s the first thing is being dropped. So this is what I’m noticing what’s really important and what’s oftentimes missing, it’s super simple, but it’s also natural that has been dropped because we think, my god, it’s so important to speak about this complaint is on it. So would you say weekly team meetings too? maybe just focus on how can we be better is accurate?

Yeah, yeah, like in exchange and if it’s weekly or bi weekly or if it’s even several times a week or so, but twice a week, but the general thing, okay, what’s going on? How are you doing at the moment? What’s what do you see what, what is happening what do you what would you want to do differently? Okay, that’s interesting. they also pick up situations, oh I felt left out here, so just people being able to share what’s happening, doesn’t have to be like total self-help, like playing guitar about the bonfire session, right? It can be maybe halfway there with sharing and also shanghai what’s coming up for you because many of those conflicts, they obviously start with something not being said right and are being interpreted and I think that really forces the culture of communication and not sending those emails, but just, hey, what was going on there earlier bob are speaking it out quite quickly and I noticed the teams to do that who speak openly and also confront each other openly.

Non emotionally, just normal. they perform a lot better than those that have those conflicts below the waterline all the time. And it’s sort of it’s not coming out but it’s just so much friction and losing so much energy. Yeah. So not knowing not knowing this particular business now, but yeah, it’s a weekly call or monthly call or bi weekly calls but having space to speak with each other. Yeah, with the idea being that it prevents conflict further down the line, right? Absolutely, and I think this is now after me, there’s an interesting right now because again we see this as not being important to everyday business, it’s like, oh yeah, but why, why should we care about this? And sometimes it’s seen as being unprofessional if we also talk about personal things and obviously you don’t have to like get naked emotional in that sense. Oh my God, who is crying? But just like, hey, I felt left out. Wow, this was strange to me.

I really loved what we did here, right? This, this was good. That’s exactly what we should be doing. Just bring your personal perceptions into the meeting instead of as I said, just, Oh, the monthly quarter, like the forecast is 3.5, we wanted to be 3.30, it’s just like It’s anybody can reach those numbers somewhere, right? It doesn’t really help the team itself 18 dynamics. So making space for people to actually talk with each other. Yeah. And creating culture ideally where everybody feels safe to also share what, what they like, what they dislike, right? And then and then again, it’s interesting all the questions that you ask, you can only do that and also as a leader only hold that space provided room if you are quite clear if you are if you feel criticised all the time and you’re constantly trying to avoid criticism because of whatever reasons you may have, then you will never feel comfortable and providing that space, right?

You would never want to, but if everybody’s sort of entered and free of those childlike emotions, it’s just a normal conversation to be had, right? And that’s why a few of this introspection and clearing of your own ship, it’s quite important. Yeah. Well, in doing prep for our conversation, one of the topics which I found to be, let’s say an area of expertise for you, stress management was something that came up regularly. Is there anything stress related that you would encourage in the workplace? So, a way of ensuring that you’re reducing the potential for stress in the workplace, anything come to mind for you there? Yeah, yeah. To me, first management oftentimes I understood it as if there was a magic pill, like 123 step, oh, this is how you no longer feel stressed and that’s not how it works, right?

You can tell somebody no, we all go at home, go to home and go at home, Go home, go home at 6:00 in the evening or things like this. So then we are less stressed, but that doesn’t really take the root problem where, where the stress is coming from. So again, to me, the most effective stress management is to look at the underlying pattern that allows you to get into stressful situations, why you say yes to another project, although like you already at full capacity, why your concerns about a certain thing that might be said or why you always think everything has to be right and everything will be perfect and you don’t allow for any mistake or any weakness, right? Those are not things that can be ordered away, but oh, stop being perfections. Oh, thank you so much. Great. And it doesn’t change anything like the next day, the same stuff comes up. So again, when I speak with leaders about the overwhelm and the level of stress, we look at ok, what is getting you into those stressful situations and often times as hard as it may seem.

Oftentimes it is our own insecurities that lets us act in a way that gets us Into stress mode. And it’s a topic will be important to me because I experienced when I was only 27. I collapsed in the middle of the workplace, in the hotel, was working at the time and looking at my own sort of way of functioning. I noticed, oh my God, I did so many weird things willy I said yes to so many things I put so much importance on, on certain things. and that had nothing to do with the company I was working for. It wasn’t like, oh, they pushed me into a burning house. No, it was just if you want to work 20 hours, why not go ahead? It’s up to you. All right, but it was all by choice. It was me getting myself into that situation was me choosing their job. It was me choosing to perform that job in a certain way of interpreting the role in the way that I did. So it really starts with ourselves. And sometimes is it’s not so easy because naturally we love to blame somebody else where we don’t want to take the responsibility.

Oh my God, it’s me who’s doing this. So that it’s more uncomfortable, maybe approach, but I find a really more powerful one that that actually works. And the good thing about it is we take responsibility, right? And that also gives us a lot of power because now it’s up to us to change the way we approach work and life rather than before we all put it in the hands of the employer or the co-workers all the balls. And it’s not where the solution lies. It’s recognising that you have influence over, let’s say, the way that you respond to stress. Yeah, absolutely. And it’s up to you if you if you If you view those things as being stressful or not right? Or if you say, well, it really is stressful working environment, let’s just focus on work where it’s just expected to work 70 hours and anybody who goes home before 10 is look down town on and say, oh my God, I don’t have a day or so, like all those things and that’s the culture still is your choice to be there, right?

Nobody dragged you into that consulting company or wherever you’re working. It’s it gave something to you. You chose that for whatever reason, if you need it for your self-esteem to have that role or you feel better about yourself or God knows what it was. and then it’s also up to you to change it again. Yeah, because I suppose if you don’t have any say if you don’t have any choice and there’s really nothing you can do about that. But if you recognise that you do have the choice then you’re empowered if you like. Yeah. And there is like stress just theory. Also, one model that we love is the one that stress secures when perceived demand exceeds perceived resources. and I feel we are all exaggerating the demand that is put on ourselves and we all underestimate the resources we have. And so it’s really, oh no, I can’t do anything. The world is just that my body putting all the blame and all the responsibility and all the power to the outside world. But that’s really not the case. And I feel that that’s the first step two and now we’re going to really like, you know, deep or so.

But it’s like it’s a way of growing up to, I feel right? Like as an adult, as a grown adult, it’s mature human being? Um, that’s, that’s how you would behave and act. I don’t want to insult anybody on the college. Okay. You’re not mature, your childish. But I noticed this in myself, right? And it’s still a matter of growing up and when I was, He said, Oh no, everybody expects me to work 70 hours or whatever it was. No, yeah, you are choosing this, you’re getting something out of it, you’re getting kicked out of changing your LinkedIn profile every half year and nine months, 12 months. However, often you get promoted and that’s, that’s up, that’s on you. If that’s the kick you meet in your life to feel better about yourself. But you can, you can feel amazing without changing linked in profile every so often. You also mentioned that you coach, is that right? Yeah. And I’m about, yeah, this is, this is interesting really. And just like anything in my coaching, really. Never happened so much by design. It was more um, after my whole going out scenario, I was off work for an entire year. I was in clinic for two months, couldn’t work, panic attacks all the time.

And then I just did all this stuff for myself, right, The whole inner work and coaching and seminars and blah blah blah, all that stuff And then a year later, two years, two years later, so I was in another job and people started approaching me and saying, oh, again, we saw you collapsing the hotel lobby, now you’re doing so much better, what did you do? It’s okay, I can share with you what I did, maybe it works for you too, and this is how this whole coaching that started and then I got interested in it and got trained and all that and eventually made in my career. And the same with the coaching bit, right? And I was a bit sceptical about coaches coaching coaches and it seems like this whole like pyramid scheme also just like in the end there are no and consumers anymore, it’s just like one coach coaching the other and at some point that needs to be like a proper clients that’s important to me that you also coach like proper people, not just coaches in one way and I was like, okay, how did you go about this or you seem to be growing coaching practice in a different way than I heard other Stuart, can we have a talk or so?

And so I guess what we do now, it’s a form of mentoring coaching, teaching, like a mix of things. Again, coaching because the best coaches are quite well coached in the way that they are quite clear about themselves and no, it’s like they can sort of be that huh, blank space or so when speaking with clients than projected for their own ships on their clients and make great suggestions And so that’s why it’s important for coaches to be coached in my opinion. And then then we speak a lot about with them about how they want to grow their business, what type of business they want to have because again to me, there are probably some 123 step system that works for some people, but maybe it’s not, it’s not ideal for you. So let’s find out what your system would be. Yeah, absolutely dive into that as well. Oh, and have you got any let’s say favourite case studies of, let’s say someone you’ve coached and made a big impact on their life. Yeah. So I mean really good case that it would be somebody okay, that’s like, like the ideal thing, like somebody, no clients, I don’t know, 800 years on the bank and then signing a €50,000 client year and a half later or so.

I mean that’s just the poster child sort of case study you want to put everywhere. that’s uh, it doesn’t happen to every single coach we work with and a lot of different factors come into play for this to happen. But, but I would say most coaches that we work with, they do find their own unique way of how they want to work and to find a way to grow that to grow that practice. And what I do notice is that at least the people we work with, they are quite well trained when they come, It’s not like we’re teaching them how to coach so much, but most of them, they, I think the record holder had like 10, 10 coaching certificates, right? So she knows what she does professionally and theoretically, but she wasn’t up to that time. She wasn’t able to make their own to find like a way of speaking with people really felt authentic. It was always like, okay, Thomas. So you just said this, let me think, Okay, method. Oh, this question have to ask now. And then when you say this, I asked that question and it just feels weird and declined.

I was like, what am I talking to? A robot? I might be filling out a worksheet that, that’s what this session is about. So, um, so we help them sort of developing their own style of culture and that’s always collect fulfilling. And one thing that we were passionate about and is the, what we call like ethical enrolment, right? So it’s not about how we, how I grow my practice, um, which is mainly, uh, invitation and referral. I’m not against any online marketing or so it’s like this what you’re really into it. But I do some, some social media and I love to do a bit more now because now I’m actually inspired to do it. We didn’t do anything for three years or so because just didn’t feel right with our children at home was just, I don’t want to be on the phone all the time and posting stuff, I just, I don’t want to do this at all. And we, I think we developed quite a good system or minds of ourselves how we do that. And I’d say in that way the main rules or so, um, would be okay. Any conversation that you do as a coaching conversation and we don’t have, we don’t do any sales conversations per se.

We don’t do any 15 minutes strategy sessions, any of those things, but any inquiry is treated as okay. This is a coaching conversation. And so I think that that’s a big difference and I’m not trying to sell. I’m trying to coach and in coaching, I don’t care so much. I don’t care not so much. I don’t care at all about the outcome. Right. What the person chooses to do or not do afterwards. If somebody comes, Oh, should I move to Berlin or Chicago? Whatever you want. But let’s find out what you want. Right? What’s right to you? But I’m not secretly cheering. Oh and you can. Hopefully, I love Chicago bears. I hope he moves there, right? And the same with those enrolment conversations. The question there would be, are we a good fit? Should be working together or not. And I need to remove myself from the equation enough to not care about it. But to just find an honest, authentic yes or no with a client. And if the client says it’s a no, no, that’s not right for me. Whatever you’re doing here.

Okay, amazing. We’ve reached our goal. It’s a no. And you can move on. I would for somebody or whatever, maybe. Um, or if it is a yes then. Okay. Amazing. You found your own answer is yes. You want to embark on this journey and let’s move on. But I think that’s a big step. And again, it’s funny enough that we talked about it earlier. You need to be able to remove yourself from that. And so you need to be clear of your own issues and insecurities are so you need to be okay with somebody coming up with actually and no to working with you right. If you are not able to do that, you won’t be able to serve them in a most authentic way. So ethical enrolment in this contact context is detachment from outcome. You’re having a coaching call to help them try and determine whether or not it would be good for you both to work together. Yeah. And, and one thing that we’re really big on this stuff like the way that we developed ourselves, many people have taken on too, but we, we always work with somebody for two weeks before even offering to work with us.

So, I want to test working with a client is as enjoyable as I expected it to be from. There is an initial conversation, Babylon is what it looks like. Of course, you have to talk at some point that there has to be this one initial thing. But then we always do. Okay, let’s do it. Two weeks. We call it Kickstarter program. You can call it anything one. Let’s try it out for two weeks. And then the client really gets to know you in your professional role rather than. Oh yeah, that’s nice. Like he lives in New York. I go on vacation there. Let’s do this. But that’s not the right reason you shouldn’t be coaching with me because I live in New York. I should be experiencing the work. And after those two weeks we can determine. Are we good fit both of us. Do I like working with a client that the client is like working with me and we will know what type of work this person needs In the beginning. I can come up with an amazing program I call it. Oh this is the rockstar coaching stress free in three-week program. But I don’t know if that person needs that. I have no idea. Maybe this person is six weeks. Maybe this person is a year. We should talk every month or every week.

I have no idea. But I may know after those two weeks at least have a better idea. Right? So this is how, how mm hmm we, we don’t sell somebody something but we continue the journey like we start to go on a journey together and then we continued in the most beneficial way for the climb. And we have to see like how this can apply to other industries. Of course, in coaching it would be quite easy. But you have to see like what bits may be applicable to a marketing consultant also, right? Maybe some things are applicable, maybe something like you know it works different our industry. But the idea would be you always continue the work rather than setting to start the work interesting. I like the concept. Yeah. And this now, of course, somebody will say, oh my God, two weeks for free like I get crazy. I can’t be giving away my work in two weeks. They will know everything they want to know so they don’t have to book anything else. And yes, it may happen. You may know that after two is complete and your job is done and but what better walking testimonial is that somebody says, oh my God two weeks working with Jan changed my life and go and see him and we do it by now in the way that we also charge for the two weeks at the beginning it was just like, hey let’s try it out for two weeks.

But over the time we developed the value changed over time like what we would charge with the two weeks. and anybody can also determine how they would want to do it right? What feels right to you if you don’t feel comfortable giving that way which I understand it depends on where you are in your journey to? I think if you’re just looking out to get any clients you made a murder charge 20,000 for two weeks but be a bit more humble and for him I’m happy to help. Somewhere in between that spectrum is quite wide. So what your goals for your business and then also anything else that’s important to you at the moment? Oh, interesting. So my goals and at the moment I want to work more with some companies. I would love to do more talks and workshops within companies. So we have a few clients I’m quite proud of. Right Mercedes or like electoral real estate agents and unfocused were quite good clients would say like reputable plants with good names. I would love to do more there but I also love to move more into the US.

And the corporate market so far. Our clients have 50% us, 50% Europe, mainly Germany. I’d love to do more there and I would love to grow my speaking to. So if I’m doing some, speaking also doing a social project 100 100 for you. We call it where I speak at 104 universities for free and teach some things about stress management and overwhelmed and maybe how to deal with life after school. so speaking, it’s another thing that I’m, I’m eager to grow at the moment besides of having everything else run smoothly, like as smoothly as it has and obviously we just had a baby two months ago, so integrating a larger family with those expansion plans, Yeah, staying saying well, doing all that would be, would be another amazing thing to experience. Yeah, anything to add advice wise on being a speaker. yeah, this is interesting to, to me here, it’s the same I guess principle, I think We sometimes we see those amazing big speakers and like all the names and I got, they charge like 20,000 speaking gig and I want to be that person, you know, everybody, you know, and 50,000 people in the arena, so, and I think it’s the same sort of humble beginnings, okay, getting on stage talking like working in a craft, giving a speech and similar to continuing the work with the coaching client, this is how, how I’ve approached it so far.

Also, the whole corporate gigs, offering to do a talk, offering to do workshops and most companies, they, they are eager to get some interesting speakers for their lunch and learn their breakfast and learn how they call it the start-ups, call them beer and learn because they’re a bit cooler than the big corporations, right that they hear and learn and then You always get the chance to do like 30 minutes inspirational talk, just like a little how you call them impact session or something like on your topic, whatever you, if you’re a lawyer or might be a consultant or a coach, right? And this, there was also a good way similar to coach and get your foot in the door and just offer some value and then you can then going to a, should we continue this right? Rather than approaching somebody has never seen, hey, you want to buy my service? Like no, I don’t, I’m sorry, but good luck, but oh my God, this was quite cool people like this, how can we continue this work? Right? I think that’s, that’s a lot better approach and again, in my way it’s ethical, it’s tumble and it’s just human people will respond to that a lot better my opinion.

And this is also what of course the 100 for you, strategy wise, it’s something passionate about that’s really important to me because of my own history and burn it off. But of course also I imagine if I have spoken at 100 universities, I’d have to be an idiot for nothing else to come out of that right now, definitely the worst Ever Speaker ever to not something developed from that right, if I’m speaking 104 stages, something was created. So this is how I like to approach things and just like a bit of inspiration to any upcoming coaches, consultants. This is also something I did With my coaching practice when I then decided, okay I want to move into coaching, this will be interesting to me, I wouldn’t want to do more of it, I offered 100 conversations did I have a good name for this, like I did for you? I don’t think so, I just call it 100 and 100 calls also and I actually managed to do this 90 days, so I had on average we call the day called point something And this was amazing, good things came out of that, right?

It was just after a 100 conversations, you know, you want to work with more or less and not just in theory, but you’ve actually talked to people because I guess anybody entrepreneurship, they do the whole swing client bit or like ideal client avatar blah blah, all those things, but this is our theory, like I, I want to work with, I don’t know, rich people paying a lot of money okay, but you really get to speak with people get to experience with them even if it’s just an hour of conversation and I had quite a good idea to want to work with men or women or old or young ones blah blah blah and so yeah, to put it on nutshell, I think it’s a lot about playing, trying out but also just offering and giving and then something good will come out of it. A Sopra city. I like it. Is there anything that you would like to mention that I haven’t asked you about today. Oh, good thing. yes. And when you speak about, I think the whole ethical enrolment, but that’s a couple more things. Um, love to mention that important to me.

And so one is, I also have to have those like 10 golden rules also right that I’ve written down. Okay, these are the rules that I like to follow. People. Also can come download on my website as like it’s in the book, but I go through one that’s important to me. That’s super counterintuitive and nobody ever does. It’s questioning the no unquestioningly yes. So if somebody, okay we go through the whole process. Hey, should we work together blah blah. Yes. Okay. The first thing that we do is, oh my God. Amazing. Secretly booking dedication with the money that the person is going to transfer hopefully in the next half hour and we’re super excited or depending on where you on your journey, you’re just relief that you can pay rent or you’re so happy. You can buy another two Bitcoins or whatever you do with that money and like an interesting bit would then be two amazing you want to work together. Let’s speak again tomorrow, right? Speak with your spouse again or sleep another night over it and just have like this 100 100 100,000% convinced person working with you and that will be the most amazing client ever, right?

Rather than somebody who’s just really excited in the moment and like in a Russian, whatever and then you just have troubles down, down, down their world, somebody not paying, maybe it’s not the right thing or blah blah, all those things that could be coming up so you can avoid that and you get this ideal person and this person will be all in, this person will refer a million people to you because it just super, super excited and in a field and now we have to probably distinguish a little bit about the coaching world and marketing himself. I’m not sure if you can do this as a lawyer, but we also love questioning the know to a certain extent if the person is fine with us because if we frame this as being a coaching conversation and I tell people this is a coaching conversation that we’re having, but it’s not me trying to push you into anything, it’s a coaching conversation and somebody says, oh it’s just not right for me or comes up with whatever reason. okay, I are you open to question this? I open to speaking about this?

Somebody says no, perfect, right, okay, we don’t we don’t push them resources. Oh yeah, actually it does feel I do feel torn. So whatever it may be and if it’s a coaching conversation may discover the reason why somebody is saying no to working with you, it’s the exact same reason why the person should be working with you. So my go to example here always is a single mom of five who is never taking vacation for herself whenever even took time for herself. She always looks after other people and she had a very difficult time spending money on her own, on her own growth on her own wellbeing because it’s just not in her system in the way of functioning. So naturally she probably always say, oh no, no, no, it’s just not right because whatever I say, wow, are we, is this a genuine now or is this you being that person again who always looks after others and not yourself right. And it could be, it could be a very, very beautiful moment for that for their client already. Within that enrolment conversation would be a great breakthrough there right there.

I’m just like, wow, I’m realising I’m holding myself back. I have not been invest in me even always and the others or so. So it’s the idea of questioning the yes and the no, whenever somebody is ready almost turned into a sort of a selling exercise at the end. There a bit of selling training that we’ve got and that’s not an insult compliment. Yeah. And to me and to me, yeah, it’s funny. It’s like the selling training and I feel it’s a, it is a, an actual service. If it’s done like an in genuine way, right? If it’s more like, oh, let me see if I can trick that person into doing it. Uh, then it will probably be weird relationship because that person won’t, won’t walk away feeling super satisfied and lose some trust. So, but, but it could be, I’ve been on conversations and those like traditional sales conversation when we were both in tears because it was so moved and was such a beautiful experience and beautiful connection and that’s usually not. What would you experiences like that phone guy sell to new contract?

You’re not in tears. Oh my God, this is amazing. I love you so much. No, this is, it’s just like fine. I just wanna subcontract well whatever. But it can be like this whole selling can be very beautiful and connecting if it’s done in a very authentic way. I was gonna say that sounds like you’re good at connecting with people. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think again, it’s something because I don’t like the disharmony, right? What you said earlier beginning like my weakness is uh, I can in some situations in life there are strengths, but I need to be mindful of what situation I mean like I need to realise is this trying to avoid conflict here or can I just be connected and be harmonious and just be that way is my way. No, I’m not. Yeah. Well, I certainly like the concept of ethical and ethical enrolment. I really like that one and I think you got given a lot of value today. So I thank you very much for that.

Thank you very much. Can you tell people where the best place is for people to find you?

Yes. So, website would be the best one. And I believe the 10 golden rules of ethical moment. You probably slash golden rules or something. But you also see it in the menu somewhere. If somebody’s interested, then you’ll find it there and LinkedIn is my best social media. Somebody wants to connect and personally LinkedIn again. My name is so funny. Very. You all have tech savvy audience. I’m sure you don’t need to be texting me too. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank very much for having me.