Thomas Green here with Ethical Marketing Service. On the podcast today, we have Alex Brueckmann. Alex, welcome.
Thank you very much for having me, Thomas. Good to be here.
Good to have you. Would you like to take a moment and tell the audience a bit about yourself and what you do?
I’m a strategy entrepreneur, that’s how I would describe it. I’ve been working in the strategy space for around 15 years in different capacities. I first worked several years as a strategy manager in a global media cooperation, later became a management consultant based on that experience. And from there became an entrepreneur myself. So running strategy programs with large organisations on the one hand and on the other hand, I help entrepreneurs to get that around strategy and basically use what I learned in my previous roles to help other entrepreneurs get the business off the ground. Thank you for the introduction. I have got a load that I want to ask you, but typically what’s the scenario where someone will come to you for help?
What is the typical situation that they’re in? Do you want to talk about it more from an entrepreneur’s perspective or more from a corporate perspective, or maybe both? What is your preference? The audience is typically business owners. So let’s approach it from there. So if you’re a business owner you would probably get in touch with me when you have this funny feeling in your stomach about mm. This has been successful so far, but I wonder where this could go if I would approach it maybe from a different perspective. Or I’ve been winging it for quite some time. It still worked. But what if I really threw myself into it kind of? And another perspective could be, you take a look at your business, you’ve been running it fairly successful over sometime, but you feel there is more in it, you just don’t know how to get your horsepower translated into speed. Kind of if that makes sense.
So you would then approach me and talk to me about what you could do with your business to streamline it, to make it more successful, to make it more profitable, to give it a new purpose, for example. And I think a fourth perspective is you’re probably somewhere in your late forties, early fifties, you know that the next 10 years really count for you because then you want to retire early. You want to spend the time Travelling the world or God knows what you want to do when you’re 60, and you really want to, we have a head start re damping your business in a way that it will be able that you will be able to sell it as profitably as possible, Say five or ten years down the road. Those are the scenarios when you would approach me to start talking purpose. Start talking strategy. Start building for something bigger than what you’ve seen so far in your business.
Thank you for that. And why is it that people tend to struggle with business strategy?
This is a good question. I think there are many answers to that may be the most top two or top three are first of all. Strategy is a concept or a word that has become sort of a joke for many or a bus word because it’s being used all over the place in so many different aspects or sets of life from the world of sports too, the world of business of course, but also in context where the word really doesn’t make sense, it’s being used kind of interchangeably with other words, so it’s often kind of this word that we use unconsciously without even knowing what it actually means. And many people, that’s probably the second, the second part of that answer do not have an academic background in, let’s say general management or anything, so they do not have a formal education around what strategy is, how you build strategy and things like that and that’s not even required to be an entrepreneur or a successful business owner.
Right. We why do we build businesses? Because we’re passionate about something because we see an opportunity that’s, that’s how we typically start out in the first place. So, and, and, and strategy kind of do I really need a strategy. I’ve been successful until now, So yeah, strategy could be a whole could lift your business on a whole new level and probably the third, the third part of that answer is that strategy is so fuzzy, you don’t find proper definition for it anywhere. You find all kinds of definition. So what I do typically helps people understand strategy in the context of their own world, of their own business and help them make sense out of it. Of course, there are certain elements to it that I will help them take a look at, but it’s not a cookie cutter approach or anything. It really needs to fit your reality as a company owner.
Have you got a definition that you use? Oh, I got many. I think that the easiest one is probably a strategy. I approach strategy in a way that I tend to say, imagine you would like to drive somewhere where it’s never been before, you hop in your car. So what do you do? You use the GPS system to guide your way? Right. And the GPS system, the first thing that the system asks is what’s your destination? Where do you want to go? So if you translate that back into our conversation here, it would it means what is your vision, where do you want your company to be in let’s say two years, five years, something like that. And then the GPS system would start guiding you towards that destination. And that is kind of your strategy and there happens a lot between starting your journey and reaching your destination. So there could be accidents on the way you could run out of fuel, all kinds of things can happen during that journey and your strategy helps you navigate these unknown territories.
Now the only difference between this analogy and your business is the GPS system knows the way there is the best way to get there in business, there might be the best way but we never know it because we always work into the future, we have no one to ask who has been there before. So strategy is your approach to reaching your vision. That would be my definition of interesting. Would you make a distinction between – what would you say the differences between the goal and the strategy? I use the term goals in a very specific way meaning you have to find your vision, you know where you want to be. You broke it down into measurable increments so that you can manage toward the vision, you make it measurable and then you know which let’s say 3-5 strategic buckets full of tasks, many projects or bigger projects you need to build in order to execute towards the vision and the term goals would sit in those buckets.
So within these strategic buckets you will have certain goals and an example would be very often when it comes to defining a growth strategy. Sales and marketing are a particular piece of that puzzle and inside this strategic bucket of sales and marketing, you would find some strategic goals that are broken down from your vision. So in your vision, when you make it measurable, there is already potentially sales target in there or a growth target in there and then you break it down into something that is very concrete that you could give. let’s say you are a company owner, you have 10 employees and you have one particular person responsible for sales. So you could go to that person be like that’s what we want to achieve, that, that is your overarching strategic goals for sales. Let’s use this goal and break it down into targets which are sub goals if you want and in order to help our people execute on it.
So you go from strategy into action by using goals and individual targets that kind of balance scorecard if you want, but way less complicated, much more hands on, much more straightforward. So you translate your strategy into actually using those goals and targets. Thank you. Do you mind talking about your key elements to a winning strategy? Of course, let’s do that. I believe there are nine elements that company owners need to embrace in order to build and scale successful businesses and they have formed around The centrepiece of strategy. So strategy would be one element and it consists and we already talked about goals, we already talked about strategy as such and we already talked about vision. So those three elements, vision, strategy and goals would be the core of the centrepiece and it’s because those elements have a reach that is that goes way beyond what they stand for and what I mean is this when you build a company, you typically need to take care of things around your pure business strategy or your vision and those terms sound familiar for many, we talk about purpose, so what is the issue out there in the world that your business is uniquely positioned to solve?
If you can write that down, this is truly powerful because it always links back to that purpose. So what you achieve is more than just being profitable. You are, you are doing well while also doing good and purposes something that really needs to be more than making money, it needs to be something larger than life, something idealistic sometimes even so if you take a look at purpose statements of very successful companies, you would often find that they are so un business, see if that makes sense that you’re like okay, but you’re still a for profit company. Yes, we are, but we know why we do this, we do something because it is urgently needed out there in the world, be it serving your students, serving patients, helping the environment, bringing more just more justice to society, whatever it might be, if you are inner core values and your purpose are clearly defined, it’s just like supercharging your organisation and it needs to shine through in your vision and I already touched so I touched purpose and already quickly talk about values.
Your values are basically they don’t necessarily have to be related to your purpose but they kind of are and what I mean with that is values are those things that are so important for you as a business owner and as a business as a whole that they are non-negotiable for you. You are you’re willing to be punished for them, you’re willing to accept that clients walk away from you or you’re willing to reject potential clients because you see that how they operate, for example, is not in line with your own values. So it’s really about boundaries, about defining who you are, about defining how you want, the people that work with you to behave, for example, honesty, and integrity would often be a value that you see nowadays in companies. So the question always is what does that mean for us very specifically how does it translate into our actions? So it’s not just a fancy word, it’s really about understanding how it translates into the day to day into your operations right?
And finally, the third element in this first layer, besides purpose and values, is your mission. It’s also a term that is often being used in different ways but in the way that I use it, it simply means it’s your business definition or if you are not for profit organisation but for impact organisation? it’s not your business definition but it’s the definition of what you do, basically. So let’s assume you are, I don’t know you’re running a small company in the entertainment field, so you’re providing stages and lighting and sound solutions to event venues. For example, your mission would be something like we deliver stage equipment to our clients and then you can also define who the clients are. You would not do a fancy marketing blah blah out of it that you put on your website, it’s really about knowing what you do.
And this is especially important if you are a small company because there are so many opportunities around you every day and so much you can get distracted by. So it really helps you focus on what counts most for you on what is it that you do? So in a nutshell, purpose values and mission form the basis on top of this basis. There is your vision, your strategy and your goals and then there’s a third layer on top of that which basically helps you put your strategy, your purpose, your values and everything else we talk about into action and that’s when you translate all of these things into individual contributions and here we talk about elements like management systems. So how regularly, for example, do you revisit your strategy? How do you make sure that your values are being followed? For example, do you have a code of conduct or anything written down in place?
That helps new employees to on board Right, all these things and you need more, the more heavier regulated your industry is the more management systems you would have to have in place simply because it’s mandatory, for example, we already talked about targets, so how do we translate strategic goals in the into individual contribution and the final element on that top layer besides management systems and targets is capabilities? What is it that I need to learn as a company owner in order to be successful in the next years. So if you plan to sell your company, you better learn to understand m and A or capital markets, if you want to go public, for example, all those different capabilities that you need to embrace over the coming years, that will help you get your company to that desired vision. If you feel you already know everything, then I would challenge you to revisit your strategy because then it’s not a stretch, then it’s not, there’s nothing that you should go for.
It’s just Operation Excellence, then kind of. So capabilities is super important and not only for you as a company owner, especially if you have employees, you need to help them learn the things that enable them to perform in a way that they can achieve their targets which in the end pay into your strategic goals. That was a long rambling. It was a great answer, thank you for being thorough. I did have a follow up and it’s just because I’m interested in this particular topic you mentioned, I think it was in the vision about what it is that makes you unique. And I find that firstly do you help people with that? And secondly, I find that people do struggle with this particular topic. Like I’m just doing the same as the person down the road or you know, whatever it might be. So what would you say in that particular instance? The answer is yes and yes, I totally agree with you.
Many people find it very, very difficult. Two define their niche. Who is their ideal client, for example, who am I serving? Who wants to buy what I what I produce and how do I reach those people? Part of that answer lies in marketing. But before you even can start market your services, you need to understand what the unique values and you can approach it from two perspectives. First of all, we already talked about purpose. So purpose plays an important role here. And second of all, your purpose needs to shine through in your vision. So in your vision you need to define what the unique value is that you deliver to your target clients day in and day out, that makes you unique and that distinguishes your offering from your competition, your competitors’ offerings.
You can also say what is the unique value proposition of working with you instead of with The Me Too company that does something similar or even the same. And in our world where copycats shoot out of the ground faster than you, then then mushrooms, it becomes a lot about mastering those nine elements that I that I described why? Because they distinguish you from everyone else, it’s your people and how you do business that is becoming more and more important. In addition to doing your homework, of course, your services need to be top-notch products need to be flawless and so on. But that’s just normal. Right? What this is your permission to play basically in the market. What then distinguishes you is that you are giving your clients a feeling of belonging, um, in using your products in using your services, you give them a feeling of doing the right thing.
Working with someone whose purpose driven if they can even connect to your purpose even better. They are part of it. They understand that they do something good with in working with you. For example, if they see that you um, like, like, like Patagonia does the apparel company, they have pledged years ago, 1% of their sales, which is a lot to environmental protection causes and they’ve been in the millions pouring money towards environmental protection campaigns that they support. Um, so people that, by Patagonia apparel, they are willing to pay a premium because they know they do good with it. Um, so I believe it’s super important to understand what makes you different, what the unique values that you deliver, what the unique issue in the world is that you are perfectly positioned to solve. And of course, this is a huge element in the work that I do with my clients.
Have you got any favourite examples or case studies that you like to share when we, when we work with larger organisations? They very often do have a purpose statement or something they call at least a purpose. And even if you have that, it is not easy always to link your strategy towards it because strategy is all about knowing what to do to make your business better to make your business more profitable to cut down on wasting time on wasting resources in general. So it’s always the balance between operational excellence on the one hand and something really strategic and straightforward and challenging for the future. Talking about purpose sounds very often kind of mushy for people. It’s nothing, they have a natural tendency to works.
So I typically need to help the people, first of all understand what purpose really is and they all have one, they all have a purpose. It’s just sometimes difficult for us to just really step into it and lean into it and accept it and then find the translation between the connection between that purpose and your business? A very concrete example is my own company. I’m a strategy entrepreneur, I help people get their head around strategy, but my purpose is to really help make this world a more liveable place and not to destroy it completely so that when I leave this planet and leave my son behind that he inherits a place that is still liveable and worth living in. so it’s something very different than what I do, but I found how I could, how I could connect those two. I deliver pro bono work to Environmental protection Agency’s, I work with them without charging them because this is the best use of my knowledge in a way to make this world a better place.
I don’t make business with that in a sense that I earned money with it, but it’s a balance right, balancing my for profit work and my not for profit work. And if I can do that as an entrepreneur, as a company owner. To me personally it was a breakthrough and it makes my pro bono work even more enjoyable and gives me even more drive two perform in a moment in the best possible way for my other clients because it gives me the money to live to live a good life and the freedom to do all the pro bono work, you know what I mean? Yeah, definitely. Have you ever say taken a typical business or a business which isn’t necessarily doing any of that non-profit perhaps and then taking them to adding some sort of philanthropy work or what you’re referring to.
Yeah. This is often businesses do philanthropy work in the broadest sense of the work. They are either active in their communities – I don’t know – sponsoring a local youth team, for example, sports team or things like that or they are otherwise active in their in their communities. Some do philanthropy that is in the form of opening their network and have people that they believe need access to that network, touch into their connections. And sometimes it’s so this this can happen through events for example where you bring people together that can benefit from knowing each other or you simply do it by donating money. So the second, the second pillar of my own purpose. it’s not only providing pro bono work to environmental protection agencies.
I also am I found it a childhood cancer charity some years ago, but I’m not a medical doctor or a researcher. I can’t really do something with my hands to acknowledge to support those that fight for a cure, but I can donate, I can give money to those people to have their research going. So this is also something where you basically put your money where your mouth is and this is often the easiest way to live up to your purpose. But it should not be the only way. Well, congratulations on that. That must be really rewarding. It is. It is. Thank you. So in terms of like mistakes, what’s, what’s some of the worst mistakes you’ve seen regarding? Strategy mistakes are a double edged sword. If the mistake is not brutally enough or or is too brutal, you can call it a mistake, but in many instances mistakes really happen on a smaller basis when you roll out your strategy and you can learn from these, they are not a game changer or they kill your strategy or anything like that.
So, um, but answering a question from a more from a broader perspective when it comes to strategy, I think the biggest mistake that I’ve seen is that the strategy is either not written down, it’s somewhere in the head of a company owner, but it’s not clear and those around that person don’t get it because they don’t see it. They don’t have access to it and its full beauty. The second mistake is that many strategies that I’ve seen aren’t actual strategies. They are operational excellence programs if at all. So they are a plan. Yes, but they are basically only a plan to do something more efficiently. A recent example I’ve come across, and this is probably encouraging for many smaller company owners. McDonald’s, they talk about what their strategy is in a way that I’m like that’s not strategy, that is the perfect example for operational excellence.
They want to sell more meals to more clients on a more regular basis. So that is not operational excellence, That is not strategy, that is doing what you’ve always been doing. But this time we do it really good. Really well. We do it very efficiently. Yeah. You’ve been doing that for a long time. If that’s your take on strategy, it’s not gonna work because you constantly need to think about how can I do my business differently in order to serve my clients in the best possible way. And sometimes it means you need to let go of how you did things in the past. You need to let go of certain services that you provide it and focus on different things because the needs of your clients have changed. And a huge example of that is Nokia. We’ve all had held Nokia mobile phones in our hands at some point in our lives. Well at least if we were older than maybe 20 years because they have, they have disappeared.
The same is the same is true for blackberry handheld devices. Why did they disappear? Because their strategy was completely internally focused? They did not listen to their clients. They did not answer to the value that clients wanted. So they struggled to reinvent, they struggled to push the boundaries, they struggled to do something that address is a unique client need and that’s what strategy is all about, basically going to put you on the spot now Alex, go ahead, let’s say you never know who’s watching, right, so the owner or perhaps CEO of McDonald’s is watching this now, what’s an example of a strategy that McDonald’s could or should have? This is not easy to answer because that’s exactly what I don’t do, I don’t tell people how to run their business.
That’s the difference between Mackenzie and a strategy facilitator like I am, so I’m not a consultant in the sense that I come in and tell you what to do because the effect of that would be that you will always refer to that as hey that’s Alex Bregman strategy and I’ve seen that I’ve worked in companies where this happened, we were referring to the McKinsey strategy because they helped us at some point and it was, it was never our thing, so what I do in status, I help companies find their strategy, I help my guide them through the process, I tell them what to focus on at which point in time, so I hold a space for them rather than telling them what to do. I think good coaches tell and great coaches ask if you take the world of sports coach is typically tell you what to do, but the very best coaches, they ask questions and let other people step in and share their contribution and talk about what they believe needs to be done and this, these are the coaches that are the most successful ones.
A great example for that is you’re saying both using both coach was at the heights of using both career, He was overweight and somewhere in his mid and end 60s, he couldn’t tell or even show you saying both how to run faster, how to start faster, how to accelerate, better. he was there too, help him focus on what matters because he knew how he could help you saying bold unfold his full potential and that’s what I do. So I would not dare to go in and tell McDonald’s rather than selling more meals to more people more frequently, you should focus on this or that, but I would help them through the questions that I ask To figure out what it is that they should probably achieve in the next 3-5 years and let’s say, well I’m tempted to keep going with the example from McDonald’s, but we go back to generally speaking, if, if they had a strategy which was failing, how would you help them?
The first step that we typically do is in such a situation. we look at what’s working well and what’s not working well and rather than just throwing everything out of the window or um, pouring the baby out with the bathwater, I think that’s what you say, right, um, we would, we would take those elements and identify those elements that work well and would then ask ourselves, okay, let, if we let go of those things that don’t work well, what do we have to add to the strategy in order to tap into a potential that is untapped right now? Um, if you are familiar with the concept of the blue Ocean strategy, this is something that typically plays a huge role when companies reinvent their businesses, they stop doing things that don’t add value or that are just a nightmare because there are too many competitors in the market and instead twist a certain element of their offering in a way that it answers to a specific need of their clients, Like No one else did it in the past.
This is basically how, how low-cost carriers became successful. They stripped away all the fancy stuff, thereby were able to lower their rates drastically, which tapped into the, A large group of people that otherwise would have taken a bus or the car to travel from eight is 8. So this is typically what we do, we try to help them understand Where they want to be in 3-5 years and what it needs in order to get there, let’s say someone is completely sold on the concept that like right I need to go and revamp everything that I’ve previously been doing or let’s say I haven’t I haven’t thought about this at all, so I need to get working on this. Well, the first few steps that you’d advise them to do, educate yourself around strategy, what is it, what is it not, really understand what you want to talk about? This is probably the first step and this is super easy.
Strategic acumen is nothing else than the ability to think and act strategically and even if that sounds fancy for many, it’s not it’s not a secret dark art, I’m not kind of a dark side lot that knows something that other people don’t and use it against them, right, it’s common knowledge, it’s something that I do on a day to day basis that is obviously in my blood and everything in my whole being, but it is accessible to everyone out there, so you can either go to my website Alex the strategist dot com, there are tons of free resources, available, definitions, articles around what strategy is and how it helps you as a company owner and there are even free checklist and free tool kits available that just help you understand how you can approach the topic and to start thinking in a more strategic way. it’s just a muscle that you need to start flexing and to build Taking one step back, leaving the operations where they are and focusing on the strategic and the mid and longer term.
I think that that would be the first step educate yourself and start approaching the topic of strategy in your context, in your reality, using some of the tools that I provide on my website that are totally free and how did you get into this business? It was an accident. I never wanted to become a strategist to be honest. in my first, my first job, I’m a trained and educated radio journalist, so I wrote and hosted radio shows and then later ran news teams and it was all fun and games and I loved it a lot and when I was 25 I realised that this is probably not what I want to do for the rest of my life, there must be something more. And this thinking was triggered by actually 9/11 because I realised that I did not really get why planes crashing into buildings led to the entire world economy go down the drain.
I really didn’t get it. There was nothing visible for me to understand the connection. So I realised I need to better understand how the world functions, how, how the economy works, how businesses operate, how it’s linked to politics and so on. So I wanted to go to university and study business administration or economics and then I realised I would probably need a high school degree for that. So I basically had to go back to school full time, 2.5 years, get my high school degree and then study business administration, what I did and to be honest, Strategy was one of the most boring, it was the most boring subject for me because it did not have any connection to my pre-university career, I really didn’t get it. I did not have the mental capacity to get my head around strategy in the first place myself. And it was only when I started after university as the executive assistant to the CEO in a global media corporation where I had the opportunity all of a sudden to start working on strategy.
And this is where it became interesting for me because all of a sudden it had a real connection to the, to the world that were real people affected by it and it was a real business affected by it. The numbers were real, the people were real and I realised oh my God, I love this stuff and it was in working with other external consultants and that supported us on the way the McKinsey’s of this world, the 80 counties. It was amazing what I learned on the way. So I realised there must be more in it. I threw myself into it into the topic of strategy and I never let go ever since on that story. Do you have like a first day, what was your first day of being a business owner or a self-employed person? Yeah, I had a I had a business when I was very young, it was basically a side hustle, I was still with that radio station where I where I did my apprenticeship It was super exciting back then, I was maybe 20 years old and with my background girlfriend I started a small side hustle, small marketing and ad agency if you want back then it was, it was like the sky is the limit, you know?
This was we, we had some clients fairly quickly, it worked fairly well, but hey the relationship broke, so did the business and when I restarted my own business decades later, now the business that I run today, It felt kind of similar, so I felt kind of like 20 years old again in terms of the energy that I felt and in terms of the opportunities that I saw, but this time I knew what I was doing, this is a huge difference, so you learn through life and if you are humble enough to realise that there’s still a lot to learn, even if you are better today than you were in the past this is the way forward, keep learning, keep applying what you see around you to your own world and try to approach business from a purpose driven perspective, not only from a pure profit perspective and what your goals now Alex short term, long term personal, private business, whatever you whatever comes to mind.
I would say from a business perspective my goal is to establish a company and develop my own company in a way that I can serve more entrepreneurs in a similar way that I did in the past but in completely different ways, so I’m currently pulling together an eight-week strategy masterclass that anyone can go through that wants to learn more about strategy and how to apply to your own world, it’s not a theoretic course, it’s very hands on, it’s about your business, you can go through it on your terms in the context of your company and I would say privately My goal is to spend as much time as I can with my 19-month-old son, this has been a source of joy over the past 1.5 years, absolutely amazing And it’s hard to say but for me the pandemic was a blessing in disguise because I was traveling like 70% of my time globally, sometimes On three continents within one month which prevented me from enjoying quality time with my family and my friends.
Having the chance to see my child grow up was so rewarding for me that I that I took action and said I need to rethink how I do my own business. So the stuff that I put out there, the two kids, two checklists and everything that I that I give to people. This is nothing theoretic. It’s what I did with my own business. I use those tools, I use those frameworks, they work and that’s the good thing, I’ve gone through them myself and I see that it empowers me to do business in a different way. and that it helps me to live a life that I want to live, meaning spent more time with my son. Well it’s a positive thing and I do think that there is maybe a silver lining to lock down, which is if you’re a good parent then spending more time with the little ones. I think they like that totally. Congratulations. Even though it’s not so new anymore.
Thank you, Thomas. No, I don’t. I very rarely ask anything which is non-business related, but I was intrigued by this one and that is which Star Wars episode is the best. Do you really want to go there? How much time do you ask? Which Star Wars episode is the best funnily enough, if we’re talking about the three trilogies then I would definitely say it’s return of the Jedi and it’s the one that I can watch every week and not get bored by. But the best Star Wars movie as such, the one that caught me the most until now was actually Solo, because it was so unexpected. the backstory of Han Solo, I of course as a fan, you always think about these backstories and the history of some of those characters that just show up in a dark bar on tattoo in, it’s just, it’s just it was so unexpected and also the additional characters that came into play in this movie, it was so rich for me and it just exploded.
My fantasy just exploded around that. So now I want to know what’s behind those other characters. Where did they come from? And if you see the cliff-hanger at the end of Solo, how Hans’ girlfriend develops into a servant for the dark side. This is really, I’m so stoked by this and so excited to see how Disney is taking the franchise to the next level and just see what it develops into. I’m very, very curious to see how it then connects back into, most likely a new trilogy. Well, thank you for the answer. I’ve got absolutely no idea where I can go with that because I’ve never asked the Star Wars question before. I think it’s a good place to win. So where’s the best place for people to find you? It’s probably my website Alex the strategist dot com the toolkit that I mentioned. The strategy toolkit is right on the landing page. Just click it, download it, start getting your head around it.
I think it’s a kind of 20-page document that is very, very hands on. That helps you understand some of the elements we talked about earlier, especially the strategic ones. And it’s a how to and step-by-step guide that helps you understand strategy in a new way, in a different way. If you’re not ready to work with it, don’t even download it because it is work, it’s not something some magic ingredient that I just hand over and you can then be successful and profitable in the future because that doesn’t exist. So if you’re ready to put some work into it and do something with it afterwards, this is your go to Resource.
Alex, thank you for the time today.
Thomas, it was a pleasure talking to you. Thank you very much.