Life’s Non-Conformities With Salman Raza

Thomas Green here with Ethical Marketing Service. On the podcast today we have Salman Raza. Salman, welcome.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

It is a pleasure would you like to take a moment and tell the audience a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Yeah, thanks. Well I’m Solomon Raza as you introduced. I’m a management consultant, I have been auditing and medical device regulatory set up for more than a decade and I am advocate of her business management system, sustainability and I have travelled across the world, worked in different continents, four continents to be honest, 30 countries where I have worked and throughout my working career I have learned how to work with different business environment, cultures and personalities. So a few years ago I have established a consultancy which based on management system and sustainability.

So what we promote is any enterprise needs three main facets that is vision and strategy and then you need a management system and infrastructure and then the actual main driver is the human resource. So we focus on developing all those three facets and make enterprise sustainable. It’s as applicable as start-ups to a establish organizations, so this is what I do for living. I also do cultural awareness consultancy and management system is remains my main bread and butter a passage. Thank you for the introduction in terms of breaking down those three things, the vision and the strategy.

What does that look like for you?

For me, it is the single most important aspect of starting any business or leading any business if he if you don’t have a clear vision, it becomes very difficult to lead the organisation when once we have a clear vision, ah it helps us to formulate strategy, it helps us find the right people and have the right the, it is a lot of times small start-ups, they get distracted by new technology, they get distracted by next first shiny thing they can see. But if, if vision is clear, which is hopefully some sort of solution is a big deal. So let me give an example, so if I’m a start-up trying to develop a diabetic care or solution for a problem, a health problem, I need to focus all my energy objective resources for that objective for that vision.

No matter how shiny the next available technologies, eyes and all that, if it is not solving my problem or leading me to the towards the solution, it is pointless. Another example could be if I want to go from London to Brighton, let’s say. and this is my objective, this is where I want to be, but if the next, the best possible one of the lifetime unfortunately comes along to travel in the most out of this world vehicle, all the mod cons in it ai and all those sort of things self-driven. But that wiggle is travelling to Manchester, not Brighton, it may well be shiny, but it is not taking me to where I want to be. So in those circumstances, vision is exactly the same thing. If the company vision is not clear, we get distracted, we get distracted by the uh, Chinese things come on away and we release site.

So that’s why vision is so important to have clear vision, what we’re trying to achieve the data service. Whether it says solution, vision is uh, a lot of times people get distracted by financial aspects of it. A lot of people get taking the progress in terms of hierarchy, market share, all these things. They are by-products, I’m not saying they’re not important, but there are by-products, the focus should be on what we’re trying to achieve in terms of solution or making a difference. Do you feel like the business plan is sufficient in terms of vision and strategy? Or is it only part of the puzzle there? It is part of the puzzle. Business plan must be, in my opinion, driven out of vision. If you don’t have, you may have a very attract a very formidable plan but it is not aligned with division and its strategy.

It may have worked for Google, it may have worked for Microsoft, but it probably will not work for you because your vision, your strategy, which is the next big thing. Strategy has to be within your spare what we’re trying to do, what resources we have, what we need and how we’re going to achieve it. So possible, but not necessarily. Okay. And so the rest of it would be, for example, mission statements and perhaps a deeper meaning quote unquote reason why you’re looking to achieve that. Anything else that you would add in there? Absolutely. They cascade. So vision translate into mission. They are usually interchangeably used. But vision is a big thing. The ultimate utopian state that translates into mission what we’re trying to do and then possibly you can have another layer of policy or company policy how we are going to do it. And then comes the objectives to what we call objective should be smart.

You know, measurable specific time bound. So all these things cascade into level. So if we have clear region, it drives the clear mission. Then the policy and the values that we want to have in our company. And then when it comes to planning, that’s where the objective and measure ability of business plays a big role, interesting the second one, infrastructure processes and procedures.

I feel like a lot of businesses, like, they miss some of this or attempt not to do it in a sense. Do you concur on that one? And if so, what have you got in mind for people who sort of know they need to put in processes in place, but maybe haven’t done it yet?

Absolutely. There’s some misunderstandings and the misunderstanding they have that it is for big companies and it is a lot of work and it’s overhead, it doesn’t add value.

So it’s very difficult to see the value upfront, but it is definitely needed. It’s a discipline. If we cannot introduce discipline, it great. It gives us the visibility of how we are approaching what worked, what didn’t work. Other than that, if we don’t have those visibilities, we keep working on gut feeling and gut feeling has its limitations, it may work for you, but if your organisation grow, your gut feel will be different to someone else that field. So, and then you bring in consistent inconsistency and then whatever the service and um, product you are trying to deliver, it will lose value. So if you are running a restaurant and you have two chefs making things differently with their gut feel, someone will be someday, it will be great someday. It will not be so great. So we need to bring that consistency. whether we’re making widget, we need ST thing exactly as it should be every single time, whether it’s the first piece of the million people, so the infrastructure, the process, the procedures, they bring discipline and another myth, I feel there exists that it requires a lot of detail, a lot of work.

It doesn’t have to be as long as there is a simple but consistently repeatable process in place. That’s all you need. As long as there is no awareness within the team and dedication and commitment that this is what we are going to do and we’ll do it, then we can work out and this will bring us the consistency, interesting. And if you helped in your consulting, have you helped introduce policies to various different companies? Absolutely. That processes rather not policies, that’s the main thing. Whether you are doing the simplest task of attending phones, whether you are, you can improve whatever you’re doing, by introducing process, making sure that it works, it helps you streamline the process, the activity, it brings a discipline, we have done several start-ups and companies where everything was done effectively, but not necessarily efficiently.

So the process brings the efficiency, part of its effectiveness a lot of people can achieve, but efficiency, the capacity it gives you capacity. If you have a consistent way of doing things, govern and structured through a process, then the efficiency becomes important and increased capacity, you can do a lot more within your limited time then if you were doing things haphazardly, Have you got any thoughts on a high number of variables in a particular, let’s say business. So say this, it wouldn’t be reasonably possible to create process for every scenario. Have you ever come across that particular incident at all? Absolutely. That it has to be contextual, it has to be contextual. So if the core activity that you call it the core, that must be governed by a process, the supplementary, again, you have to manage your resources, you have to do contextually, you have to do what is meaningful at that particular time.

So introducing a procedure for training, when you are the only one in the organization doesn’t make a lot of sense, but having a disciplined process established procedure developed for delivering your core activity, that makes perfect sense. So, so it has to be contextual, we need to focus on what is important, what is meaningful for that organisation of that in particular moment in time, and then you focus on those areas so that I have answered your question.

Yeah, I mean, I wanted to touch on the last one and correct me if I’m wrong. The new book touches on competent team because you’ve got well I’ll let you in your words obviously, but you’ve got about personality types and that sort of thing. So in the context of telling me your thoughts on competent team, would you also like to talk about your book for a moment?

So the book, as I was explaining the three facets of a successful enterprise vision infrastructure. And in the third facet is people are the most important aspect on facet of any business or anything in life. So the book is focusing on the people aspects of it, so how to develop a team, how to work effectively within a team. So and everyone in in in this world have their own personality. There we are born with those personalities and then we learned through our culture where we live, we learn things, we learned from the surroundings. And then of course As we grow we develop our emotions. We need to how control and manage our emotions in certain circumstances. So the book which is coming out fairly soon, August 3, focuses on different managing effectively, working effectively within different personality types.

So let me give you an example. An introverted person or works very differently than extroverted person. So if I’m an introverted person, if you ask me a question, it may take me a few seconds to process the information that the question that has been asked And then once it takes perhaps a few seconds 10 seconds. But when I start talking, everything is processed before my response in my head that seems to work reflective type person who’s talking this way. So they take the questions process go from a to set everything is process, and when the response starts coming, it is a comprehensive response. You possibly may not need a subsequent question. It’s that’s how it works.

However conversely, if an extroverted person has asked a question, their mind, they are usually active activist type people. They start talking before they think while they are talking, they are thinking at the same time. So the pause in between the response is very difficult for an excellent type of people. They don’t like quite, they don’t like silence. They like to interject in in a good faith. They are not they’re trying, they in their head they’re thinking maybe I didn’t ask the question correctly. Maybe I need to clarify. And they interject, They interrupt the thought process. The 10 seconds silence is too much for them, but that 12th silence is gold for the intellect people. So creating that awareness that if someone is an inter work, we need to we have asked the question, let them think. Let them process. And the response will come.

If they need clarification, they will ask for clarification but give them that time so we run a workshop of these activities quite frequently and a lot of time we give exercises with personalities intra works and we asked them to respond before you count to 10. So in your head, if someone had asked you questions, start counting to 10 and you have to respond before you get to 10. And similarly we asked extrovert people, if you have asked questions count to 10 in your head, Don’t interrupt before you get to 10, stay quiet. so there are several ways that this is only introversion and extroversion type. They are in mice Briggs type indicator classification. There’s a judging type and perceiving type. Perceiving type people they like to take casual, they don’t have structured way of achieving time scale, they get the job done, but in their own style.

Whereas judging type people, they want very bite sized pieces structured very, very, very neatly defined targets. I’ll do this today, this tomorrow and everything went is done in the ticket of the list. But perceiving pipe, they may not do anything for first few days and then there’s a big spike on the third day and everything is done. But Lack of awareness between two preferences creates the opposite people mad. It just drives them mad because for a judging type person, you’re not doing anything and deadline approaching. It is frustrating for perceiving type person, that may be why you’re bossing your heart. And I will do it. I have committed to do it. I will do it so similarly the communication can be improved just because having that awareness. So I’ll give you my example. I used to be I’m still in an introverted person and I have throughout my career I have made so many extroverted people around me so much restless because of my silence in between and they don’t like especially when I used to do audit people go crazy because I’m not saying anything.

So what I have suggested in my behaviour before I go on my thinking trail, I informed them. Okay, let me think so. Now just by adding this simple sentence, let me think. They know I’m thinking I have understood. So just the awareness of the difference personality types allow me to add simple adjustment to my behaviour. Simple communication to my colleagues. And it solved the problem. Sometimes when it is possible I start I start thinking aloud so people know what I’m thinking. So they know okay, this is the concerns or the positives and negatives that I am going through. So these are the small adjustments that we can make that made the team work effectively and efficiently. And we have a lot of understanding of our colleagues.

Do you use the 16 personalities? Yes. So the mice breaks type indicators. They have 16, but they are not the only one. You can use any other tools. So for example, Keirsey temperament model is quite popular. So we can adopt that. The there’s effectiveness Internews Institute, there is quite a few. I see two global, there’s another one that’s coming along that rides on MBTI. So the important thing is the awareness of difference that it exists, that we are different. We may behave differently, our preferences are different. So that’s only one facet personality is only one facet culture is another good one that comes to mind because we now live in a global village. People have hailed from different cultures that come from different upbringing.

What is acceptable in one culture is totally different in other cultures. So I use huff said inside models, you may have heard of them. It’s a very recognised theory that they have models and they have a profile depending where you hear from. Could be your individualistic preferences, collective preferences. So it’s a social model will possibly, we’ll talk a little more about it. But they are combination that in a team, we need to understand all the dynamics to make it work. So do you advocate each person going through some form of tests so that let’s say other team members are aware of the differences between personalities. It is helpful. It is definitely helpful in an organisation. if they don’t like the test, I am open to it.

I do several tests, I have done several tests, but again, it’s also a perfect personal choice. We cannot enforce my choice on someone else. It helps if you are aware of your own personality types and what motivates you, What frustrates you. Once you understand your own personality and culture and all the influences in your own individual characteristics, it helps you interact with others. So once you know yours you are more open to learn the others. And once that awareness increases, our interaction becomes more effective. So having said that, as I said, everyone is different, someone may not like and enforced preference of no you should do this test and you should do learn this and as long as they are aware we’ll keep working towards improvement.

Selfish question. Have you got any thoughts on logisticians?

Well I admire and I value every single trade because they are valuable in one of the topics that I covered in my book is every single trade. Every single personality, every single human being on earth has value. They will bring value to me. It’s my job to identify what is the benefit it is bringing to me, how can I benefit? So another important topic in my book is ego management. So it is very important topic of ego. So if I have that mindset and I understand and I’m not saying it just easy if I develop that mindset, every single person, how annoying it. Maybe they, maybe they have some writing for me, they have a gift that is beneficial to me.

If I have that mindset, then one of the ways of managing our ego and then I’m willing to learn from whoever is in front of me. So even criminals have some something to learn from. So if they have gone through a criminal activity, we have opportunity to understand what the thought process was, learn from that and then make sure that we don’t felt trapped into those traps. So every single thing, every single personality, every single type has its value and we ought to learn how we can benefit from them. And I suppose once you get that knowledge of the various types and also that principle that you shared, then you can start to look for what that person’s strength is and how you can apply it. Absolutely the mindset is I’m not doing it just for the sake of it, just look good. I’m genuinely interested in you and what I can learn from you.

So that genuine feeling and mindset that you have something to offer that makes me feel interested in what you’re offering. If I’m just doing it for the sake of it for just for the to impress people just to be polite, it wouldn’t have that effect. But if I’m generally interested in what once one of the individual I struggle, I’m not saying I struggle a lot of time. So all these things that I mentioned, they are challenges that I face every day. So if someone is really, really annoying and I feel I really can’t get on with this person and I trying to apply my own principal, how what can I learn from this person? That is annoying so much. So once I told myself, well at least learned that I can be annoying, similar way to someone else. Just learn not to be annoying to individuals.

So if you need to know when to stop when people start getting annoyed by your present. So there’s always something to learn from anyone that we interact that even though how maybe how annoying they may be. So what was it like to write the book? Did you enjoy it? Was it a love hate thing? And how long did it take it? Is it is it is a challenging most of it while I was writing it was exciting, but it was difficult, it was challenging because you have experiences, but writing it so that you translate your experience and emotions so that people can understand. that was a big learning curve because the intensity of your feeling and experience written in a way that people can understand that intensity.

That was a learning point and challenging. And then to be honest, it helped me learn even more what I was writing because I was my publishers and my coach, they were challenging me to think even deeper and come up with a way of describing things that helped me learn even more. So yeah, it was it was good, challenging and frustrating at times because things don’t go according to your plan always, but that’s life approximately how long did it take I took about the transcript was complete perhaps 18 months because I had a busy schedule. I was traveling all over. I hardly was home, I was studying at the same time, so it took a long time to write because of that but the subsequent to writing transcript I was focusing on that before starting, but I thought writing book was difficult, but writing book was easier than to promote and to work with publishers and come up with design and all that.

So I do have a copy to share to your audience. it is called Life Nonconformity and if you can see I can explain the philosophy behind the cover page you can possibly see a butterfly being transformed from a caterpillar. The fascinating aspect and the reason we chose that analogy is we all know you know the metamorphosis and caterpillar comes in opinion. Then they go through the process and become butterfly. So we all know and learn that however think that fascinated me immensely. That changed my life to certain extent is yeah, when we learn when I learned that every caterpillar has potential of becoming the butterfly beautiful being, but not every caterpillar becomes a butterfly.

So when I learned these statistics It was only one in a 100 For past possibly to 100 realise that potential. so that’s when I knew that when I realised that every single one of us humans, we all have potential of being beautiful being just like colourful butterfly, beautiful being. But not all of us realise that potential and why we don’t realise that potential. This is what we are talking about in this book. Our nonconformity, ease, a nonconformity is a term that is frequently used in auditing world because I’m an auditor, we go to companies and identify what is not right and if it is not right, we say it’s a nonconformity. But when we translate that into a personal life, we have a lot of traits, a lot of issues. That is a kind of a blind spot. We don’t realise that we do have them. Once we address them, it helps us become a better human being and it becomes a better professional.

So the book has stories about how I hated my job because I didn’t understand what motivates me, what triggers me. But once I learned that the same job became enjoyable. So how did I do that again? Learning the basics. I teach that to young professionals trying to figure out what is they like doing some books talks about that books talks about a lot of interaction that I had professionally. There’s a lot of stories. I hope people will find them relatable. The book has a lot of interaction with my children, my daughter, my son. So let me share some you a funny story about my daughter. She wasn’t She was five at that time, one day we were sitting and talking and then she came and she said daddy, you look fat and ugly.

And I’m smiling at that comment and I locked it off. But then when it starts thinking about it, that’s the problem with introvert reflective type. People we think about everything and anything. I start thinking why I’m not upset, why I’m not feeling upset by this comment. Anyone in this world, my wife or my friend or my anyone, anyone other than my daughter would have said that I would have felt so bad and rage. Why I’m not feeling that. And then there’s a whole topic and theory about why I didn’t feel that it is because my heart at peace with my daughter. I she doesn’t threaten me. And anyway, psychologically, professionally, my ego is at peace. She is not challenging me anyway. If as in professional life, if I attain that level of peace, my ego find a piece.

I will not get threatened. I will not feel defensive, I will not feel and behave in a way that leads to a lot of unnecessary confrontation, a lot of unnecessary traits that we developed. And my professional life has become a lot more smooth and progressive. I’m not saying it’s easy. I’m not saying I don’t have, I have mastered it and I don’t feel that I always still do that, but just the awareness of it, it helps me continuously help me improve. So the book covers several of these topics and several of these theories how to manage our egos. What are the ego triggers, how we can manage? We can we talk about political awareness in the work environment. I received an email and I feel enraged by reading that email because everyone in the organisation is copied on.

I feel like punching someone. But all these emotions, they are real. They are not, they are not unreal. We have to accept them. How do we manage these emotions? Uh, is key? So the book talks about how we can and manage those emotions. So yeah, so the book has several things and it will be available on three August. Almost all major retailers including amazon. Um, and I hope people find it useful. Well, very interesting now that I love the example. And I also think that like you say, having an awareness that it’s possible is going to help even in that scenario where you’re feeling like you say enraged knowing that it’s possible to not feel that way is going to help, isn’t it? Yeah, and there are different intensity, so sometimes I’m annoyed, there’s annoyance, then there’s a feeling outrageously mad, there is so many levels of the same similar feeling.

So once we know the level of ah intensity that we are feeling certain emotions, then we will find ways in our stock in our mind. What do I need to do if I’m feeling just annoyed? My remedy for this level of intensity of this particular emotion is this, if I’m feeling I need to punch someone, this is high intensity. That means that I need to take drastic steps. So, again, creating the awareness, having that stock available, stock of actions that I need to pacify that particular emotion that I’m feeling the other important thing is I need to disassociate that emotion from me. I’m not angry, the anger is in me. So I’m not anger, anger is in me, so I need to remove that anger from me.

How can I do? So I’m not angry, anger isn’t me? So similarly, I’m not frustrated, there is frustration in me. So once we understand those simple concepts, we disassociate those emotions from us. I’m neutral. There is something in me that is making me feel that way. I need to pacify and control and manage that particular situation. So that’s all we talk about in this book, tools and tips and practical solution, how we can manage those things sounds great. Thank you for sharing the reflections you have as a as an introvert. Do you also think that that applies to positive thoughts? So let’s say you’re happy or you feel happiness? So you’re you said you’re neutral, so the happiness is in you, you are not happy. Do you apply that? Also? It could be, it could be and it brings the balance in your behaviour because there’s a lot of this I think I don’t know where it’s from.

There’s a saying that don’t make decisions while you’re angry or happy, if you are ecstatic, you may agree to doing something which is not possible. So you have to make decisions when you are at balance so you can be able to see the pros and cons. So yes, absolutely. It is I there is happiness in me. I want to keep this way. Why it is happiness in me. How can I continue having this? So everything is a learning point. I’ve never heard that before. Don’t make decisions when you’re happy. I’ve heard the angry one, but not the happy one, it’s the same. I feel the same if I’m happy, I’m not thinking straight, I’m so happy, I’m agreeing to everything. And so that’s personally, I feel that decision must be made when your mind is that peace neutral? Well, one thing that struck me about your profile is that you’re highly educated, biomedical engineering sounds very impressive. innovation, entrepreneurship and strategy and strategic management.

How much do you think the educations impacted your life and how much do you take it and use it in your everyday work?

Education is important by so everything it is, again, it’s one of my personality a type. The rather than portraying myself highly educated, I rather be portrayed as I have an inquisitive mind. So you don’t need to have lots of degrees to be inquisitive. It’s just a mindset of, I want to learn more. I don’t need to go through university or college to learn more. So I chose to learn and study those topics because I was inquisitive and it definitely helped me because I learned a lot during that. But if I were to give you a reason, I am because of my education, of course it has an influence, but primarily I am what I am because of my, my inquisitive nature.

So I may get more degrees, but don’t apply it. It doesn’t, it doesn’t make sense. So if you learned and apply those learnings only then they are beneficial. So my take on it, I’d rather be seen as inquisitive mind rather than educated person. Have you done any of that self-knowledge where you ask why is that? Your inquisitive, it is part of, it is personality type. I was born with part of his nourishment in the family environment that I lived but again, primarily is a personality type. I guess. I may learn something new later on that may trump this particular response, but currently I feel it’s a combination of the personality and in nature.

Okay. And the book touches on building relationships and I guess the personality types and knowing other people what they’re drivers are, is going to help with that. Have you got any other thoughts on the topic of building relationships? links back to our fundamental, even the business enterprise, what is the vision, what we are trying to do? So any relationship, what we are trying to achieve from that relationship, if what the benefit and long term, a short term or whatever the term we have in mind. Once we have that clarity, then it leads and help you formulate your line of action and strategy. So if I’m working, if I have relationship with my wife, what is the vision of that relationship? I want to I am in this relationship because I want to be in this relationship because these are benefits, challenging situations.

They do come as long as the benefit and my vision is aligned with that, it will help me so challenges come. But if challenges part of the journey that I had to endure towards my vision, that helps you make the right decision in building relationship, whether it’s personal, professional. So, for example, I have been on jobs where I didn’t like being on that job. I hated my job. But thinking and comparing with where I want to be this particular job, I need to be in this job to achieve certain goals. That will help me with my vision. You suck it up. You know, this is the right thing to do all these awareness, help us make the right decision. You mentioned hating the job a couple of times. I know that’s not where you are now, but let’s say you’re a family do family gathering and it’s someone who they’re like, I really, I really can’t stand my job anymore.

And you’ve been there and you’ve done that. What advice do you give them exactly saying what exactly you want in life, understand what aspect of the job you are not liking and what do you like to do?

So let me share my story why I was not hating it. Perhaps that will help people. I understand how you can change aspects of it. So I changed my job. I was still doing auditor, I won’t name the companies, but I was working as an auditor in one company. They have one style of working and then I switched the job and exactly the same job. But I’m not liking it. I’m hating it because of the way that company works the paperwork and all that during the same period. While I’m frustrated. I’m reading a book very important, revolutionary book in my opinion, Clayton Christensen’s book, How will you measure your life if you haven’t heard of it?

If your listeners haven’t read it, please do. It is the most amazing book I have ever read. I’m reading that book and it asked a question and it helps you understand. It goes through several thing. What makes you take and how do you do things? So going through the process, I won’t take the whole book or ring for you. But what I learned from that book, what exactly is that I used to enjoy and what? So we did the root cause analysis and went through all these questions. I realised I like teaching. I like coaching. This is where I feel motivated. This gives me motivation. But now I’m an auditor. I have a mortgage, I have children to feed. I cannot become a teacher all of a sudden. So this is a dilemma. But then I came up with a solution. Okay, so what aspect of teaching I can bring into my day job that helped me goes by my date.

So think of an audit auditors, what they do, They go in look for things and identify the nonconformity is that this is not right, This is not right. But I came up with an idea how can I make this audit process like a teaching for me. So I went in, I start going into my work instead of saying you are wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong. I start explaining, look the requirement, the regulations is this and this is what they’re looking for. Show me in your documents where this requirement is met. So it became very interactive. So I’m teaching the regulation even though I supposed to be auditing, I’m still auditing. But before my questions I start explaining things. This is what the regulation is asking for. Have you covered that? So I translated my motivation of teaching into my current job. So the coming back to your questions, what would I say?

I would and wise people try to investigate what exactly motivates you, To people motivates you, people around you. Are you a team person or you like to work on your on your own? Do you like paperwork? Do you like routine? Do you like challenging a new challenge of what it is that is motivating. Once you have identified that basic trade, then you can assess. Can I trust late and transform that trade into my current job? If not, then perhaps start looking for jobs that gives you that satisfaction and motivation. Great advice. I think it’s probably a lot more pleasant for the people you were auditing as well. I would suppose. Absolutely. They start seeing me and the whole book is about that the they start seeing me as a human before that interaction. They I was the bad guy, I was the devil. I’m the emotionless person. I don’t have any life.

I just come and tell people they are wrong. I used to be enemy number one. But when you become, there’s a chapter in my book Leading with vulnerability. So if you become one durable, you are relatable and people are happy to work with you because you are not triggering their ego. You are not challenging them. You’re not threat to them. You are here to behave. You’re not infallible. You are fallible as fallible as they are. You are at the same level. And that makes the relationship long lasting, even though I’m an auditor. But all my followings and people asking for my book when it is coming out, they’re all people who I have audited and identified major nonconformity is these are the people are chasing my book release state rather than people who I have praised. So absolutely. They become your friends rather than or ditty great.

It’s a really good example. Is there anything that you feel that would be valuable to the audience which I haven’t asked you about today?

The value of course going by the book, that you hopefully will find a lot of relatable stuff that can help. The other thing is always have an open mind, always be inquisitive what we see on face value, not necessarily how we perceive it, we perceive it because of influences that we have our environment, our culture, but if he tried to understand, be open, it is fascinating when you start learning and understanding different sides of the coin and it is amazing. So advise be open to any other possibility, try to understand and learn the reasons behind why things as they are okay.

And have you got any goals for the book?

Goals for the book is I try to help people if I manage to help. it doesn’t matter if it’s 1000 people or a million people as long as someone reads the book and find it useful and then they achieve their goals whatever they want. So referring back to Clayton Christensen example, he says, How Do You? There is one way of measuring success is the hierarchy. So if you become CEO of a multi-billion company, there’s a millions of people underneath you, that’s one level of measuring success. How high are you going? Hierarchy. The alternative way of measuring success is how many people get influenced and inspired by what you are doing.

So I have chosen to assess success by level of people who got help and inspired by what I had to share, and they don’t even have to tell me that they have learned from me. I don’t necessarily need that as long as I feel I have contributed and the information is out there and hopefully people will benefit for me. It’s a success. It’s a great way of looking at things. the question popped into my head which was, have you have you ever gotten in touch with that author and said, you know, your book made an impact on my life, but that is the I iron. There are so many people influenced my life and I speak a lot about it even in my book, but I never got to meet them. Clayton Christensen unfortunately passed away last year. There are a few other people that I have mentioned in my book. I never got to see them but that doesn’t mean that I don’t admire them and I don’t hesitate to mention their names.

I have presented Clayton Christensen’s book to at least 50, 60 people as a gift because I feel that this has an influence and I share the stories from that book and people show an interest on that. I said if you are interested let me buy it for you. And I have done it for several people across the globe, whether it’s us America Mexico Australia UK, I have done so, so unfortunately I didn’t get to meet with them, but at least I’m promoting and propagating their theories and their influence on you.

Well you’re doing the same thing with your book now, so, congratulations, I guess I would say about that, thank you. So where’s the best place for people to find you? And maybe buy the book?

Yeah, so the best place of course my website, is my consultancy website. My personal website You can buy a book from that as well. The book will be available on Amazon globally and all other bookshops, and my email and you can find your LinkedIn and hopefully these platforms will be good places to connect.

Well. Thank you again for the value, and I speak to you soon.

Thank you. Have a good day.