Marketing Mess To Brand Success With Scott Jeffrey Miller

Thomas Green here with Ethical Marketing Service. On the podcast today, we have Scott Miller. Scott, welcome.

Thomas, thank you for the platform and the invitation.

It is my pleasure. Would you like to take a moment and tell the audience a bit about yourself and what you do?

Sure. So I’m joining you from Salt Lake City Utah in The States where I live with my wife and our three young sons that are 7, 9 and 12. I am A 25 Year associate of the Franklin Covey Company, the world’s most trusted, an influential leadership development firm founded of course by Stephen R. Covey of the seven habits fame. I was the chief marketing officer for over a decade there I write a column for ink magazine every week on leadership. I host the world’s largest weekly leadership podcast every Tuesday interviewing guests much like you. I am a Wall Street Journal and Amazon bestselling author of numerous books you see behind me. I host book club dot com and their leadership group and a variety of other entrepreneurial things going on. I’m a fairly crappy leader that’s learning along the way how tough leadership is and I’m honoured to join you today.

You’re not very busy then. I got some things going on. I got some things going. Would you like to go into marketing mess?

Yeah, so I have a series called Mess to Success. 10 books in the series. The second book is called Marketing Mess to Brand Success. And this is based on my 10 years as a chief marketing officer of a public global company in my 20 years as a sales producer and sales leader before that. So this book came out about three months ago and I’d love to answer any questions you have about it. Well, typically whenever anyone comes on with a with a book, I always like to ask about the writing process. So is it a is it a passion for you or was it kind of a love hate type scenario? neither actually, I think as I, you know, build a brand around my own leadership three decade career, I started writing articles for LinkedIn and then I had a column and ink magazine short kind of blog style articles. And my writing process is quite replicable.

I get up every morning at 4:00 p.m. and I write for 90 minutes, seven days a week, almost every day of the year 4 to 5:30 is my kind of circadian cycle peak. So I write short chapters, Thomas. My chapters are, you know, three and a half pages long. So in essence I write books that are compilations of kind of blog style writing very easy, very breezy. So for me it’s not a passion and it’s not Love Hate. I think I’ve got a wealth of experience others can benefit from. And a fairly funny, unfiltered. You know, writing style, I write the way I speak, everyone tells me that. So for me, I have built a cadence that’s worked well for me and hopefully well for readers as well. So it’s neither a love hate or a passion. It’s sort of now I want to say obligation, but it’s sort of now just you know what my contribution is to the world. Writing every day. Is the writing the way you speak. Is that a sales copy influence or is that just come naturally for you?

Yeah, I don’t know any different. You know, most of my career was to your point as an officer of the company, you know, writing content for anna reports, right? Writing business correspondence, very formal writing and I think I found that puppy little bit natural and stuffy. I had, you know, I I worked for the Disney company for four years. I was trained, you know, kind of be very corporate speak. And I think I probably subconsciously got fatigued by that. So my natural style when the gloves are off, so to speak, my natural style is to write the way I speak. And that probably resonates for some and not for others. So probably for me is a natural style that had been suppressed for three decades. Right. Have you got a favourite chapter that you would like to talk about? You know, all my books follow the same process, 30 challenges that I think everybody faces, these challenges are opportunities, their principles and in this book, marketing master brand success, you know, I tell you of one of the biggest things that I’ve learned as a chief marketing officer is that all of us, whether we’re working in an entrepreneurial company with five people or solo proneurs or working in a mid or large sized company, we all face the same challenge of focusing on our customers and falling victim to the natural gravitational pull of focusing on ourselves, right?

Whether the politics are Ebitda, our cash flow, our pipeline, our brand, our message, our product and it’s a natural resistance we have to overcome to focus on the client. What is their capital? What is their quarter look like? What is their problem, What are they trying to achieve? So it’s kind of a bit of a duck. But the opening chapter is called it’s the it’s the customer stupid Based on a US political campaign back with Governor Bill Clinton who ran against the incumbent George H. W. Bush back in the 90s, George Bush had just come off a super high approval rating for the first gulf war. Many gulf wars that the US started and he is the only way he was going to beat him was the economy was going to hell in a handbasket. So his campaign staff had in their little rock Arkansas office a sign that said it’s the economy stupid. Kind of keep them on point. And this is the opening chapter of its the customer stupid. So a marketer’s job is to resist this sort of corporate culture, whirlwind the hairball that keeps sucking you in on your issues and you’ve got to be the voice of the customer resisting that.

Be out listening to them. What are the words they’re using? What are the problems they’re facing? What circumstance are they in? Like I said, it’s a bit of a rudimentary idea, but I think we all fall victim to the politics of keeping our jobs inside the firm when we’ve got to be the voice of the customer outside. Now It’s good answer, is there any um, 80, 20 influence there at all? You know, yet to your, to your question, I’ll mention, I’ll mention another one is where we spend, you know, the vast majority of our time with probably the littlest impact and that is every culture has a language, right? We build our own internal languages, our own acronyms. We spend a lot of time there perfecting those talking in those and rarely are they the same language? Is that customers are using? And so you’ve got to be thoughtful enough to understand you might be calling an engagement, but the clients calling it leadership or you might be calling it an operational issue, but they think it’s a supply chain issue.

And so your 80/20 question might even turn around is to say, you know, you might be thinking, what are the clients really obsessed with that we’re not obsessed with And are we spending 20% of our time? There are 80% of our time? I get the potatoes law question, but I think most of us tend to spend our time in areas that give us validation that give us immediate satisfaction that keep us employed inside the company when you may want to be spending your time more on the areas that you’re not comfortable in that might have a higher return that you’re not getting. Most marketers fall victim to the things that bring them validation, social media, YouTube, viral videos, so to speak, billboards, magazine ads, whatever it is, I think we tend to market the way we like to be marketed to And it requires you to move outside of your comfort zone and understand how does your client and their circumstance I want to be marketed to and how do you make that 8020 will work when you might have to be moving outside of your own natural marketing comfort zone to market in ways that your client going to respond to disproportionately.

I answered your question a bit differently. But I think most of us have to stretch our skills and marketing because the landscape is changing so dramatically by the week right now in terms of how you place your ads and how you measure your results, how you connect with your customers. Have you got any thoughts on what a client or customer might be interested in or might respond to versus what might be, what’s beneficial to them? Your question is, do they know what they need? Do they know what they want? Is that kind of your question? They think they know what they want. It’s actually good for them. Might be different. Yeah, I have two thoughts on that. One is, I think the best marketers are obsessed with understanding the exact circumstance their clients are in because everybody who’s 68 that’s selling their home is not ready to move to retirement centre. Some might want to buy a vacation home, some are buying a motor home, some are moving to a 55 or older community, some want to travel the world, some want to buy a duplex that have a smaller size place with a rentable income stream, There are lots of different circumstances that people that are 60 years old are in when they’re selling their home and they’re moving into retirement.

So I think the first marketer’s job is to understand precisely what is the job to be done. What is the circumstance your ideal buyer is in and how are you catering in their solution, your solution to their circumstance, they may not know what they want. You know, Steve Jobs is famous for this quote right around giving our clients what they don’t even know that they want. Well, unless you’re Steve Jobs, which I’m not, That’s a little bit heavy. So the first I think is paying the price to make sure you know, what is the exact circumstance your client is in or will be in or is moving towards so that your solution can be what they need and what they want, whether they know it yet or not. Secondly, I was sure that never thought with you. there’s a woman named Karen Dylan, she is the former editor of the Harvard Business Review here in the States and she co-wrote a very famous book called How will you measure your life? It’s an amazing book, bestselling book. I basically took business principles and applied them in our personal lives. Well in this book that she co-wrote with the famed Harvard professor Clayton Christensen, who passed away about a year and a half ago, they took some research from a fellow Harvard Business School professor.

And this is the insight, Thomas. The empirical research shows that 93 of all organizations that achieve financial success do so with an emergent strategy, not the deliberate strategy they set out with only 7% of the time is your original idea or product or service. What makes you successful? 93% of the time you have to pivot and turn to change your mind and be open to influence and we see feedback. Oh, this isn’t what the clients want, even though we think they wanted or we’re passionate about it, or it’s my entire ego or I mortgaged my home to build this company on this product, 93% of the time that does not work. So to answer your question around, what do you do? You understand kind of what the client wants versus needs? You fiercely understand their circumstance and you are humble enough. Turn on a dime to recognise that what you mortgaged your house on to patent to copyright trademark to inventory may not be what the client wants.

You may have to twist and show emotional and mental agility. You may have to check your ego and say, gosh, my genius idea isn’t what they need, what I’m hearing, They need, what I’m hearing, they want, what I feel they want is this And that’s the case, 93% of the time, only 7% is your passion, your expertise, your genius idea, what they want or need. I think that requires a level of humility that most entrepreneurs and a lot of CEOs don’t do this. Great answer. I want to ask you about your other books as well, if I may, how many others have you written lot? So, the books you see behind me, if you’re on camera, I have a deal for 10 books in the mess to Success series. The first book in Blue was Management mess to Leadership Success. The second book in Green is Marketing Mess. The books you see behind me Job Mess to Career Success, Communication Mess to Influence Success, those are the first four books in the message success series, there’s six more coming out in the next seven years and then you see behind me this book and the white figures called master mentors this book releases in September, this next week actually 30 transformative insights from our greatest minds. These are, there are 10 books in this series as well. I take 30 of my favourite podcast guests and I write a chapter about the biggest idea I learned from them and then this book on the other side you see is called, Everyone deserves a great manager. The six critical practices for leading a team that came out about a year and a half ago was the Wall Street Journal bestseller. So I like to write books that are about challenges we face messes that I created, things that you can learn from me. Not just my successes but the mistakes that I made amongst my journey. So there’s lots of books in development and believe it or not, since you asked the question, You’re going to find this laughable, but I just signed a book deal for 154 books, 12 a year For the next 13 years on careers.

It’s called the Ultimate Career Guide. And so what I do is I’ve mapped out the most viable high growth careers for the next decade is about 150 of them and I co-write each book with someone who is an expert in that right. The ultimate career guide, how to become a wind turbine technician, how to become a patent attorney, how to become a nurse practitioner. And these are short books, video books, audiobooks, digital books and print books. So you can read three or four of them to realise is this really what I want to do with my career. Once I become a patent attorney, what are the ways I could pivot beyond that? What our options to reinvent myself eight years and when I get burnt out as such. So I’m very excited about the ultimate career guide series coming In 2022. Long answer to your short question or I’m congratulations on all of that. I think that’s amazing. Thank you Thomas regarding the mentors, master mentors. Have you got some examples you’d like to share?

I do. So I selected 30 people that had a profound impact on me on, on this podcast called on leadership with Scott Miller. People like Seth Godin and Dan Pink, Julian Treasure. He’s a brit as a matter of fact, right? And Liz Wiseman that wrote multipliers, Nick Vojtech, who you know, as a gentleman who has no arms and no legs, he has no limbs at all, write a book. I read a chapter about gratitude. So each chapter is based on someone generally whether they might be a luminary, A thought leader of celebrity CEO, but not always some of them are not or not well known and I wrote a whole chapter from general Stanley McChrystal. You may know him as an American four star general who led the United States has initial operations in Afghanistan. And I write about being on the right side of history and some of the mistakes that he made that he admits to, he learned from later in life around war heroes that he idolised.

That turned out quite frankly be on the wrong side of history. What he learned from that. The book again is very practical. some of them are NFL football players. Some of them are YouTube sensations, but each one is a kind of the chapter that kind of hits you where you are right. Each one of these may not be a transformational insight for you right now, but it might be a year from now when you’re a parent for two years now when you’re married or next month when you now are a leader of people or next week when you’ve declared bankruptcy and you’re rebuilding your personal life or your professional life. So again, very easy breezy read. I take a chapter, I highlight a person and I write three or four pages about that person and then there’s some key takeaways at the end. And for every book that I write, you may know, I create a card deck. So there is an accompanying Kardec on each of the mentors, including the key insights and a QR code to go to the actual podcast interview. So these key these cards I use in keynotes and as I mentioned earlier, every book that I write as a different kind of accompanying card deck that someone can purchase It caused upside down, someone can purchase.

It has all of the 30 challenges that I use for keynotes where people can buy them as well because I think lot of people like to keep the book alive and a great way is to have just a little plain card deck to use in meetings with colleagues. I use, like I say a keynote speeches but every book that I write has a mobile Kardec that accompanies Amazon. Well done sir. Thanks for the platform. Why is it that you are? Well, what makes you think about your personality that you’re able to do all this stuff? Because I think an awful lot of hard work and most people might have the expiration and perhaps attempt even to implement but not actually deliver what you have. So why is it the case that you can do it and others may not be able to Well, I think several reasons one is I have an indefatigable work ethic. I don’t have a Yale, N. B. A. I don’t have a Stanford PhD. I was not born into money for privilege beyond my race, which end of itself is some privilege.

I have an indefatigable work ethic. It probably is the one unifying thing across all of these mentors in my book and the people that come in the podcast is these people outwork everybody, that doesn’t mean they’re workaholics, it means they have great passion or what they do and so they never take for granted that they have a right to anything, they have to re earn it constantly. And I believe that so one is my work ethic. Two is I believe in finishing, I like to finish. Most people like to start gives you the dopamine the adrenaline, the euphoria. I like to show what I do not talk about what I’m going to do. So I am a prolific producer of output. I’d like to finish now that results sometimes and perhaps you might argue, well Scott, you wrote three books this year, should you’ve written one and it had been a blockbuster, maybe that’s Jim Collins right, that’s not my strategy.

Jim writes one book every seven years. His books are great, but I like to write books that are topical and timely and based on my experience and are easy to read and breezy. These are not books that are going to be, you know, Pulitzer prize-winning book, but their bestselling books and they reach a large influence audience and so I I also enjoy working hard, I was born in a family where hard work got you ahead and I generally believe that’s true if you work for principal leaders that want to lift you up. I also believe that I am loyal to other people. When I say I’m gonna do something, I do it. I make and I keep commitments. It’s maybe two days late, maybe two hours late sometimes. But I make and I keep commitments. I think that’s part of my reputation. So for me a couple of things, I do have some privilege that others don’t have. Some might say yes, well you’re the host of the world’s largest podcast. Well, I didn’t follow it out of a tree. One day I got up, I decided to have a podcast and I made hundreds of calls to every agent, publisher, Media Celebrity and said would you come on my podcast and 400 phone calls resulted in three guests and then two of them cancelled.

And I got on the phone and called up more people and said I need a guest in an hour. Like I have to have a guest in an hour and I just made it happen. Yes. I had access to people but I had earned that access. I built the access. So honestly I think most people can accomplish anything they want if they’re willing to do the hard work if they’re willing to ask people to help them. People cannot help you. If you don’t know you need help. You have to be able to move outside of your comfort zone and call people and say, hey, would you come on my podcast? Hey, how do I create a podcast? What’s the best microphone? I see you’ve got a great camera. What’s the name of that camera? You have to be willing to put yourself out there. You have to be willing to have people criticise your hair, criticise your glasses, criticise your stutter, your hair is great. There are blogs dedicated to my hair, to my glasses. I change glasses every day. I have a stutter. You have to be willing to be criticised. I’m criticised all day long all the time.

But you know what the quote, Renee Brown who of course wrote these amazing books including dared to lead. If you’re not willing to put yourself down in the arena and get your ass kicked along with me. I don’t care about your criticism, throw all that. I’ll throw all tomatoes you want from the stands, walk down into the arena with me and get your ass kicked and I will pay attention to the tomato you’re throwing at me. So those are some, those are some things that I’ve learned indefatigable work ethic willingness, put yourself out there and be criticised, willingness to ask people for help because they cannot help you unless they know you need help. There are too many audience members and not enough players that’s okay, that makes the players more influential. You said the work ethic was a big part of the reason why your well, so productive. Do you think that work ethic can be cultivated or is it a nature nurture thing?

Well, I sure hope it can be cultivated because I don’t think anybody’s born lazy. I do think people are born into environments that are lazy that our reinforcements of an entitlement paradigm. I think if someone can attach themselves or be around someone that it’s a transition figure for them, it could be a teacher, it could be your first boss, it could be a neighbour, it could be the mayor to be a member of your church or synagogue or mosque. I absolutely think that people can learn a great work ethic. Let me tell you there is no such thing as overnight success. It does not exist. There is overnight fame but there is no such thing as overnight success and everybody that I know whether they are Pulitzer prize winning authors, whether they have a billion YouTube views, whether they’re at the top of their game as a CEO or a celebrity. I know most of these people because they are my friends, they are my podcast guest. I’ve written chapters about them with their permission is 10 of these books coming out.

Everything that they have in common is they have a unrelated work ethic. You can’t even imagine the number of failures they’ve had Matthew McConaughey, all the movies he tried out for that. He didn’t get the parts, All the T. V. Pilots he tried out for that were never they were shot but they were never option for a film. Business is just what you don’t see is the six books that they wrote that nobody bought all you see is the seventh book and you see overnight fame and I have story after story after story of all of the mistakes and failures and messes and they kept going to Harrison ford the actor, How many movies he tried out for? It never got the part. And so I think I think to your question Thomas if you have a passionate desire to build a successful life for yourself, attach yourself to other successful people work hard for them to invest in them and most of them in my experience, all of them our loyal will give back to you.

Not in every case probably, but that’s what I did. I attached myself to Stephen Covey, You know, seven habits. Half of the people worked my butt off for 25 years, proved myself as a guy who makes and keeps commitments that’s willing to work harder than anybody else. And I have built a growing influence and business because people trust me to make and keep commitments. Would you say he’s been the biggest inspiration for you? No, it’s one of the top Seth Godin Seth Godin of course one of the, probably the world’s most famous writers, authors, blogger speakers, marketers. Seth has become a good friend of mine, I don’t know why he likes me so much, but he’s invested a ton of me. I’ll call them up and say set I’m giving a speech next week on how leadership thrives in a digital transformation, specifically machine learning and ai Seth, I can’t even spell a, I let alone talk about it and sat in his car will tell me everything he knows in 18 minutes but a I have three pages of notes and he’s such an abundant person.

Seth Godin is an iconoclast, but he is an amazingly abundant person. Generosity that knows no bounds. And so I would say Seth Godin has had the biggest transformation because he taught me the difference between being fearless and being reckless and for many decades I thought I was being fearless, but I was being reckless with my brand, with somebody else’s feelings with my reputation. I thought I was being fearless, but I was really being reckless. I kind of always the guy willing to say the unspoken or willing to drop the proverbial bomb in the meeting and not all that needed to be said. Some of that could have stayed inside the head. I didn’t have to tell you what I thought about your dress that day or what I thought about this and these maybe are life lessons, but Seth has taught me at a differentiate between being reckless and being fearless and that has had a transformative impact on my marriage, my relationships, my brand, what I do, what I don’t do, what risks I take South Dakota, thank you for that And it’s, it’s not the first time that I’ve heard that.

So I think I might need to start paying some more attention to say thank you. Yeah. So regarding the podcast, what’s it been like interviewing influential people? Well now it’s kind of normal for me right now. It’s kind of my life after 200 of them. But it is, I write about it in the book. In fact, many of these transformational insights I share in master mentors come off camera, you have to have been a guest on the podcast to be featured in the book. Many of them are what they say or do off camera. So it’s been uh, it’s been a remarkable education for me. It’s like, you know, trying to compartmentalise what I learned from these people, How do I apply it as a parent, as a husband, as a leader, as an entrepreneur, as a volunteer, as a committee member as a friend. It’s been probably more awesome than I acknowledge. I don’t agree with all their opinions, right? Some of them get highly political, which means I can’t bear it because the podcast is the podcast owned by a public global company, right?

So sometimes I get 12 minutes in and they go sideways on you to think, oh my gosh, there’s no way I can air this. So I have to, it’s not live by the way, I’ve only had one of those, but generally has been humbling and validating my podcast like yours is both audio and video. It’s unusual, right? It reaches about seven million every Tuesday. So, the reach is amazing to be thoughtful about who I book. I recently interviewed one of the two survivors of the Pakistani commercial airline crash two years ago. The plane crashed in Pakistan, two people survived and I interviewed one of the two survivors. He’s actually the CEO of the Bank of job and that was life changing. How do you not interview someone that has survived a commercial jet crash that fell from the sky? His seat, he latched the plane, it hit a residential roof, it slid down a roof and landed on the trunk of an occupied car?

He of course was unconscious on fire. The passengers got out, strapped them, an ambulance came and saved his life. How does that story not change your entire life? Nik Vucevic, no arms and no legs, can’t scratch his face, can’t drink a drink, can’t go to the bathroom alone, can’t dress himself. He’s built an amazing business in life and following with millions of books sold in speaking around the world. And how does that not change your life when I’m able to hit end with my finger on this podcast and go use the restroom and make a smoothie for myself, zip up my zipper, change my glasses. So again long answers to your questions. But it’s been the impact on me has probably been life changing. What’s amazing is when you get an email from someone that listens to the podcast and says this hit me exactly where I was in my marriage today with my husband. Now I understand why my husband is doing this because of what your guest who was a neuroscience scientists said.

And I’m going to get him into some therapy because he’s not just a bad person. He did fall off his bunk bed when he was 14 and his mother told me about this and he probably has an untreated brain entry, which is why his prefrontal cortex is on fire and he loses his cool so quickly and he’s had seven jobs. I now understand he’s not a bad person. He’s got you get the point right. It’s just it’s amazing to be able to pollinate access to all these amazing people and make their knowledge, their research, their science, their gift accessible to millions of people. It’s a big responsibility now. Sounds like to me like the meaningful examples that you give might be just as if not more rewarding than the business related stuff. Would you say that isn’t that true? I interviewed someone yesterday that used to be a now famous podcast host and he used to be a pharmaceutical salesperson, made a lot of money selling very important medical devices in hospitals, right?

Teaching doctors how to and he hurts. He heard a famous author speaking at a conference once everybody stood up and gave him a standing ovation, 6000 people sat down and this guy stayed standing clapping, he stood up when everybody else sat down and they be lined it across the stage to meet the speaker and now he is hosting the podcast for that author Who has sold two million books because he chose to stand up when everyone else sat down that’s built literal and metaphorical, but you’re right, it’s moments like this personal professional that how I think it could have a transformative insight on people that are listening to podcast including yours, maybe something I said today, which is in many cases it’s just a regurgitation and the aggregation of what I’ve learned from others. We’re all doing the same thing, you are doing the exact same thing we’re providing and democratising information access and inspiration to people that may not have known where to get it or how to get it.

So kudos to you Thomas for your platform and for shouting your spotlight on your guest, you’re doing the exact same. Thank you. Well I would like to reiterate well done on all the achievements, the hard work. I can no, it’s admirable. And I also think that when you get to see an example such as yours, it also reminds you that there is more to do, you just wanted to add that I’ve got a few more to do and you do as well by the way, your hair is better than mine. So don’t be bigger than pleased with your hair. For those who are my camera Thomas was rubbing his head and I was talking about all the feedback I get on my hair. My hair looks like woody woodpecker most days, so in case you’re not a camera watching me visualise, woody woodpecker with brown hair and that’s my hair. I think you might be being a bit charitable with the fact that my hair is better than yours, but your hair is great. You’re easily maintenance, easily maintenance. Is there anything that you’d like to add that would be valuable to the audience that I haven’t asked you about today. You know, thank you for asking. The biggest lesson I have learned from spending my 25 years at the Franklin Covey Company, 15 of which with Dr Covey himself, was this following idea.

This has been again transformative for me. Dr Covey wrote the seminal book, The seven habits of highly effective people. I’m often interviewed with news and press members on the seven habits of highly efficient people, they get the name wrong. No, the book is called the seven habits of highly effective people and Dr Covey taught me the difference between being efficient and being effective, they’re not the same, one is not better than the other, but there’s a time Thomas to be efficient. There’s a time to be effective. And if any of your podcast listeners are like me Or they can relate to me, I’m a very efficient person. You can see I’m a very productive person. I get up at 4:00 AM, I write seven days a week, You know, I’m that annoying neighbour that wakes up on Saturdays and mow their lawn at six, rakes up by seven, washes the cars by eight And I’m ready for tennis by nine, that’s who I am. And by the way, I don’t apologize for my efficiency because it’s been the hallmark of my success and productivity problem becomes Thomas.

When I try to take that same level of having an efficient mindset and I move it into my relationships because you cannot be efficient with people. You can only be effective with people. To quote Dr Covey, slow is fast and fast is slow. So for those of you that pride yourself on being efficient, checking things off getting things done. That’s great, keep doing that and recognise when you’re dealing with people which is the majority of your life, you may need to show an unnatural level of patience, slow down, turn off your phone, close your laptop, take off your glasses, take off your pinging, watch and check in with them and move into an effectiveness mindset, especially now post pandemic or mid pandemic where we’re all trying to build connection. We’re all trying to, you know, retain our team members that might go somewhere else for another dollar, an hour, a pound, an hour Euro an hour or free beer on tap or ping-pong table.

People don’t quit bad jobs. They quit bad bosses and correct cultures. And so for all of you out there that are leaders of people, you need to know when to be efficient email, expense reports, social media, taking out the garbage and when to be effective. Nearly every time when you’re dealing with another person, I think that is a good, a good point to end on. And I wanted to reiterate that I think you’ve been a great guest and I appreciate all the value today. Can you tell people where is the best place for them to find you and also by the books. Sure, thank you. So you can visit All of my podcast, episodes, blogs, articles, columns, books, they’re all there My books are for sale and most major languages on every book site Amazon, you name it everywhere around the world. You can just, you know, google Scott Jeffrey Miller or Scott Miller, you’re bound to find me. All my books are on Amazon and you also can connect with me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, soon to be TikTok, to quote my wife. It is hard not to find me and she was not paying me a compliment. Any dancing and TikTok this was gonna go dancing yet. I’m taping some daily videos on leadership, career coaching, building culture, marketing, career advice. There might be some is there dancing? I’m not unwilling to dance. I just don’t know that I’ve known as the dancing leadership guy yet but stay tuned. I’m unwilling, I mean, I said, I’m not unwilling. I’m willing to dance if that will help get my message across. Stay tuned.

Thank you very much.

Thank you sir.