#189 – Guerilla Marketing With Nathan Bynum

Thomas Green here with Ethical Marketing Service on the episode. Today we have Nathan Bynum, Nathan Welcome, thanks Thomas, thanks for having me on here. I’m excited to share some knowledge hopefully. And to connect with you excited to have you, would you like to take a moment and tell the audience a bit about yourself and what you do? Yeah. So very recently I’ve shifted over the past couple of months to helping business owners to get in front of their ideal audience with a Guerilla marketing campaign that gets their audience involved and to share their content naturally because of their involvement because of the nature of guerilla marketing. Would you mind giving me a thank you for that first part? Would you mind giving me a definition? Because I’ve heard the term Guerilla marketing before but I’d like to know what what your definition is. Yeah. Over the past few months when I’ve been like reading all these books and listening to these podcasts, reading all the articles I could find on Guerilla marketing, people can’t even agree on how to spell Guerilla marketing.

So it took a lot of syndication to break it down into like reasonable steps and to I think to best answer that is you you have different components to that and they would be understanding your audience and then highlighting your unique value proposition throughout the campaign, a clear call to action and something that grabs your audience attention than making it engaging with your audience, something that they’re able to do as well and using your creative powers and finding the right crew to execute this marketing campaign. And I think all those bring together really what Guerilla marketing is, which is, it’s still kind of vague but it, it has all those components to it and it’s something that just inspires people or entertains them and it doesn’t even really look like marketing whenever you first look at it.

It’s something uh, it’s something that they’re able to do inactivation or it’s something that is almost, it looks maybe like a prank at first but it’s bringing a message that’s why you’re having that call to action and your unique value proposition there. Have you got any examples that you like to use? Yes. So I, I think that whenever I was thinking about this, the, the best illustration that I can use for highlighting all these components is actually a story that happened in college with me and in college I really enjoyed having fun and also helping other people have fun and kind of that attention grabbing thing. So one of my friends was coming into town will Reeves and we wanted to do something that would get all of like the, the campus involved in it.

And it was, we went to a small Christian college and it was a little over 500 people and one place that everybody gathered was in chapel and so the night before, whenever he got there we wound up unbolt ng a lot of the chapel seats and we put them in there to where they looked like they were still in but then people would fall whenever they sat down and some of them were unbolted less than others. So it happened throughout when the speaker was talking and so we did that they couldn’t prove who it was but they based on who are things that I had done in. Like my friend being in town, they assumed it was me. So they asked and I had to tell and then It was a $500 fine because I wouldn’t tell who all the other people were that were involved in it. And so the marketing kind of kicked in because this was a, this was basically a grill marketing stunt.

And so one of my friends Daniel Gerber, he was like, oh you should just start a go fund me kind of just like spitballing kind of, he was kind of joking but I sat down and I made a go fund me with a clear call to action with like telling the people and I was like I did this for the people like all this and the call to action was to donate and so In less than 24 hours it was over the 500 because everybody wanted to be involved in that because they were able to see that and feel that and have that kind of break in the norm so that kind of encapsulates all seven of those components Interesting great example as well Ouch to the $500 fine but if you didn’t have to pay it I suppose it’s not not a bad thing. Um am I right in saying that you’re you’re a web developer? Yeah that’s correct.

And I got some should we say areas of specialty of how to monetize websites. I wanted to ask you about perhaps what the lesser known ones are. So most people who have a website and they want to make money from it, it’s like a business or like a service or a product. Have you got any others that you think? You know people really really aren’t utilizing these. Um I think that there’s a lot that are coming into play with all these advancements in technology like the N. F. T. S. And the trading and I think with um with the metaverse coming up, I think there’s a lot of opportunity there as well which comes with like the land trading and everything and so I think getting a grasp of that and planning for that will serve people in the near future and understanding how that all works and how the like getting familiar with unity with different developments of the metaverse and kind of wrapping our minds around that kind of having that creativity and basically to lay that out the groundwork for that is it’s the web 3.0 It’s it’s not the same as the deep web which to kind of explain that is the deep web is anything that is still you can get to it through like the any browser like your you have to log in facebook like people can’t see that.

And then I think a lot of people are getting Slightly confused about Web 3.0 which is just like the the metaverse in which is different than meta which is facebook. So this is to kind of break that down is I think having kind of the courses like the training that we do like a lot of people are course creators and preparing for that other dimension that that involvement, that creativity, the being able to look around and have that feel. I think that is one thing that is going to explode pretty soon. So just preparing for that and kind of just dipping your toes into that and I know it’s not a huge thing right now like it’s not hugely monetize able right now. But I think that is one place we can definitely invest time and knowledge and learning when you say the deep web, is that the same thing as the dark web?

The deep web is different than the dark web because the the deep web is you can still get to it through Safari or chrome or whatever web browser that you’re using but it’s it’s just the things like in your facebook it’s the messages that people can’t see unless they’re logged into you and then the dark web you have to go in with a certain VPN um browser that allows you to get to the dark web and then I think their browser on there is go go duck or something. And so those are also different. So there’s a lot of things coming together. So for those that are let’s say have no background of knowledge about the metaverse, what can you teach them? Um So I only have a brief knowledge of the metaverse as well, but most people do, I think that it is one thing that I have been looking into because of the potential and there’s a lot of it sounds crazy but people are making millions of dollars selling land on the metaverse because it just like with Bitcoins it is a finite resource, it’s not a like with other block chains, they don’t make it to where it’s something that can be replicated.

It’s like the reason that a lot of economies go down is because whenever the government gets in trouble, they just keep printing money but with the Blockchain it has a code in there to where you can only have a certain amount of Bitcoin ever based on how the mining algorithm is. And that that’s why like on the metaverse, if that winds up being The # one platform, which it looks like it will be, there’s a finite amount of land on there which people will be able to put businesses on and people will be able to walk to and to travel to and so people are having that foresight and getting in there with that land and there’s other things that people are doing like developing games on there which I’ve I’ve been making a three D. Game so that I can have that as an activation for the Guinness world record that I’ll be doing in august because a lot of the people will be attending virtually.

So having that engagement like I was talking about with the Guerilla marketing, having people be able to participate is a huge thing. Great answer um puzzling about the concept of having because you would think something like the metaverse would be potentially infinite. Even if perhaps it isn’t right now, they could add more virtual land, any theories on why it would be finite. I think the people who have kind of created the metaverse want it to be finite so that they are able to add that extra value because like in the basic economics 101, it’s that chart with supply and demand and the more that there is of the supply, the less valuable it is and they could see that and so driving that demand for it is a lot easier whenever people are kind of anticipating what it’s going to be in seeing all the actual real life, real estate all going up and people having that basic understanding of it with the understanding that there’s going to be a limited supply just like on the Blockchain it makes them have a higher value product rather than you can just infinitely build in this certain metaverse, interesting.

Do you want to tell me a little bit about your games? Yes. So it What I’m doing in August is I’m setting a Guinness world record for launching 10 lemons into an 11″ target From 32ft away and it sounds incredibly random but there’s method to the madness and the name of my business is lemon launch and that’s where I helped the business owners and I wanted to get some publicity to kind of hone in on all the people that I’ve met and been able to network with and kind of provide value to entrepreneurs who are starting out like giving them the course for free, giving a lot of different resources for free for attending that and like partnering up with all these people and I began thinking about it, I was like their there’s not a lot of people who are gonna travel all the way across America or across like the ocean as well to attend this and so a lot of people are going to be virtual so I started looking into it and this is when I got kind of interested in the metaverse was the potentials there with unity and Unity is one of the main builders that you can do for the three D.

World. And so I’ve mostly built the game and it is slingshots with lemons in them and there’s targets all set around and whoever gets like the highest three places by the time that the Guinness world record is live then they’ll get extra resources from the entrepreneurs. So it’s a way that they can feel more more attached to it more engaged so that they don’t feel as left out just being virtually attending. That’s a great idea. Um It doesn’t make me wonder why is it because like differentiation is as you’re fully aware a marketing principle which is encouraged because you don’t want to be you know doing the same thing as everyone else. Why is it that, let’s say you’ve learned that early on in your career. Whereas you know there are some businesses business owners who don’t get that at all in their whole entire business life thoughts that yeah I think it goes back to that second principle of the guerilla marketing and it’s that unique value proposition which I read James Alfred jones book a while ago, skip the line and he talks about how it’s a lot easier to be the only than it is to be the best.

And his example in the book was his daughter was a straight a student. She had all these volunteer hours and everything that good students have on the resumes and she was applying for all these prestigious colleges and she kept getting rejected because there were so many great applicants that looked the same as her on the on paper. And so he knew that she enjoyed watching auto races and so he told her why don’t you just become a professional car racer and then in the next few months you’ll have that on your resume. So she was the only one that had all those qualifications like everybody else. But she had that unique. She was the only auto racer as well. And so everybody wound up accepting her. So it’s that finding that differentiation makes you stand out because you’re able to not only provide that service but to have something else, some other benefit.

Like I was looking at your website and I think what you do is awesome like you you have that your service where you help with the marketing but you also have that and you can kind of explain it more than I do but you have that where you help other people like you donate to helping the less fortunate like the whenever people hire you can you explain that more? Ah yeah with every with every new client we get we sponsor a child. So yes it’s very rewarding and I love that part of it. Yeah. So you completely understand it. Like you you have a way that you it warms you it fills you, it helps the community but it’s also like a differentiation like if I was gonna hire somebody I would love to hire you for that because you’re the only one that I know of that sponsors those Children. So I think that is an important thing to understand and it’s important to have it be an authentic thing for you.

Like yours is an authentic thing to you, that’s what you enjoy doing, you enjoy sponsoring them and having that. Like she loved doing the auto races and so finding something that you I love doing, you enjoy and combining that with something that you are skilled at is the way to kind of look at that great answer mainly I think it’s a great answer because it complements me, but you know, would you like to talk about the book because you’re a best selling author, is that right? Yeah, that’s correct. Um I wrote a book about a year and a half ago and it was on goal setting And at 24 I was wanting to write it because I enjoy listening to TED talks and like falling asleep listening to them and just like always trying to figure out ways to improve myself and just like reading the scientific articles, everything.

But at 24 I was little intimidated by that with by people asking me like what do you know, like you’re, you don’t know anything, you don’t have life experience and so I actually asked you that or was that a fear? It was a fear, it was a self self limiting belief and but to kind of combat that I was like, well that, I mean that is true. Like I don’t have nearly as much experience as most people. And so I went around and interviewed a lot of successful people that I knew and kind of combined all of their answers into a strategy with like different, different tactics that they use and made the book based around that and based around the scientific empirical evidence and also based around what life experience I did have. So I enjoyed writing that because that was something that I always wanted to do because I think one thing that I like about like entrepreneurship is you’re able to kind of syndicate the knowledge that you’ve accumulated into easy to digest ways for other people, but it also benefits you as well.

Any napoleon Hill inspiration there about the approach to the book I I had read think and grow rich long ago and that was one of the things that kind of inspired me to look beyond myself and to find inspirational people and to find what made them successful. So yeah, definitely. Some napoleon Hill congratulations on the book. What were the, there’s probably loads of things that you learned, but what would you say the main things that you learned from interviewing people about goals was I learned that people all approach it a little bit differently and or they at least have um, have that in their mind. And a lot of people like they will set them, they’ll they’ll know what they want. But the main things that people had in common were visualizing the end goal because of the particular activating system that we have, that kind of that’s what whenever we get like a new car, then we start seeing that car everywhere.

So it kind of feeds into that or if we are in an argument with somebody and we can’t we can’t think of a good answer or rebuttal, then like we’re later on taking a shower or mowing the lawn, not thinking about it and then it pops in our head because our subconscious keeps working on whatever we I have thought about what we have visualized and what we really want and that kind of goes back to the think and grow rich analogy, but it it wound up coming up a lot with the goal setting, which is it is cool to see that parallelism and it That was one of the main things, but then the other one was writing it down and two kind of breaking it chunking it down into smaller goals until they finally reached it. But then what surprised me the most was how a lot of times people will set out for one goal and get close to it, but it will be a little bit different than they visualized in the beginning, but usually for the better, which through threw away a lot of my material that I had had that I had theorized about but it made it more real and it made it more interesting seeing how that visualization will get you near where you want to go.

And a lot of times it will get you to what you want. But sometimes like life is, life is funny, life is very unpredictable, but it will usually push you if you’re working hard and you’re working towards that. It will usually push you in a a better direction if that one goal wasn’t where you were supposed to get. So um by by getting close to the girl, do you mean they actually change their mind or you know, they almost exceed it. Was that what you meant? Yeah, I mean like you you think that you understand what you want, you think you I know exactly what your business is going to be, you think you know exactly who you’re gonna serve, but then opportunities arise and different circumstances come up to where you’re able to still serve other people, You’re still able to help other people. But then you you see inside yourself, you learn more about yourself and you wound up helping them in other areas and you wind up going more down that road.

And so you’re you’re still doing what the basic principles of your goal is. But you’re sort of pivoting based on what more information that you’re learning, you can only know so much when you set your goals, right? So you’re going to, if it’s like a five year goal or whatever, it might be. I mean, you’re going to learn an awful lot in that time frame like you said about yourself and then also about the details, it might be more appealing to do something else which doesn’t meet your goal, which essentially becomes your new goal. Exactly, yep, you you said it, right, So, I mean, I normally save this too right towards the end of the episode, but it’s, so shall we say relevant for someone who has written a book on goals, be interested to know what your goals are. Yeah, my goals are to bring joy and value to people and businesses and make their marketing experience is enjoyable for all people who were involved and to, to bring that fulfillment to as many people as I can because that that’s one thing that has stayed true to me is the, the desire to help people and to bring smiles on their faces.

So doing that through my business is My main goal. And the other one is 2. one day, give a TED talk, it’s a great girl, I’ve spoken to many ted talkers, if you could call them that. Have you got any thoughts about what it would be on I do and it it’s something that I’ve been working on it, it’s basically Guerilla marketing and the principles of that, but it is more in a specified direction. But I’m I’m still working on the kinks, so it’ll be ready by the time that I have my ted talk going, do you have a time frame in mind? Uh two years? Okay. Because that’s a that’s a goals question now, what do you think about deadlines? I I think deadlines are essential and the reason that I think that is because restraints really drive creativity.

And I think that a lot of times that whenever we have too much freedom of mind, like we think that we’re we have like all this, all this space. It and a lot of times makes it harder to be creative because we don’t see what the restraints are and we don’t see what the norms are, we don’t see what everybody’s doing because there’s there’s not really that there and were able to have that that freedom and it comes in that but it also comes with reaching your goals. And I think that it adds that extra pressure. Like if you’re Doing a like a if you have a 3000 word essay, do your probably gonna write 2500 of those words on the night before and it may not be your best work, but it gets those creative juices flowing, which is why I think having incremental deadlines is really important for the bigger goals.

So like breaking it down, like telling yourself, oh well this is due this day, but it’s you break it down into like 1000 words, 1000 words, 1000 words. And so by the time that you get to that ending, you you’ve been a lot more efficient because you’ve kind of crammed it into smaller timelines, whatever your goal is, you’ve you’ve crammed that in, but you allow yourself enough time to reflect on your finished product, you’re finished goal and to kind of refine that and tweak it. So I think that deadlines are essential restraints, drive creativity, I think is one of the best answers I’ve heard in relation to goals and you know, whether you should do it or not because I think the typical answer I think is it’s just subjective, you know, whatever works for you. But yeah, that’s a great answer. Have you got any um future books in mind? Um I do, and it again, is kind of centralized around what my eventual ted talk is going to be around and it’ll be kind of paralleling how pranks are mike guerilla marketing and how that will lead to ultimate success.

So I think there’s it’s amazing how many parallels there are whenever I was looking at different activations, other people have done, I’ve looked at like all these different grill marketing campaigns and they all break down to the same principles, but I think that it’s a lot easier to understand that through what people have seen, what people have heard, what about different pranks that people have maybe experienced or done themselves. And so I think I personally understand and listen to things a lot more whenever it’s a little bit different, it has that like that relevance to me, but it’s presented in a different way. So that’s basically what the book is going to be based around, right uh what’s the name of the first one by the way? Its goal setting habits to achieve your goals and succeed in life? You want any meat, any mentors whilst you were interviewing people.

I mostly went to people that I had already known and I this was at the beginning of my business career, but these were people that I did think of as mentors before, so it just kind of solidified that relationship, me learning from them, them providing their wisdom. And so I didn’t really meet any per se, but I, I understood more about that relationship. So it’s especially bestselling authors, I, I’d like to ask about the actual promotion side of the book. Um, I suppose there’s a two part question, the general, your general thoughts about the concept of promoting a book for people who have written one and then don’t know how, and then also your experience as a, as a guest on podcasts. So the the main thing that I did was I was because I to clarify, I did it self published through amazon and so I was doing this promotion myself and so I was trying to think what amazon would, how they would drive the traffic the most.

And so I looked at like what other books were doing and like how I found other books myself. And so at looking at that, I realized that the most bang for my buck would be through the amazon advertisements because they cross promote, amazon knows so much about us, which I’m sure a lot of people I know that whenever they look at their amazon suggested feed and so whenever you have those, the amazon advertising then they will cross promote. They’ll put it on different books that are similar to yours that complement years, you can put it like on a banner, if somebody is reading a kindle book, it’ll pop up there or it’ll be under other books that are similar to that like Zig Ziglar has books that teach different tactics on goal setting. So if people are interested in that then they’ll see that below there and it’ll promote, it’ll say you may be interested in this and it’s also has a space at the top.

Whenever people reach or whenever people type in goal setting, then that will be if you bid it correctly, it will be the first search results will say sponsored on there. And so that drove a lot of traffic to it because people amazon understood my ideal audience and so they were promoting to them special mention to for Zig Ziglar, are you a fan? Yeah, I am all right. He, he has a lot of wisdom in him and he, I read a couple of his books whenever I was preparing to write mine as well. Yeah, there’s a lot of a lot of good stuff with the likes of Zig and Jim Rohn, those types of people um and your experience as a podcast guest to use it for the book or is it um yeah, what’s your purpose for podcast guesting and how have you found it? Um my purpose mostly is to find and connect with people who are serving audiences that are similar to mine to connect with them and to kind of promote whatever whatever I am learning at the time, I’ll usually make that into like a free lead magnet or other kind of informative things.

I’ll kind of test that out and find people who I would, I feel that I could benefit later on in some capacity, whether it’s through the grill marketing or the consulting and I think being a guest on podcasts is pretty interesting because you, I learn from the people who are having me on there just as much a lot of times as I feel like I’m contributing and so it’s not usually about the book. Like whenever I was first doing it, it was, but it’s transitioned more into the other things that I’m doing and I think that it’s also a great way to build those connections with the the host as well. No pressure on you to be my friend or anything. But it I think it’s really interesting to be able to have those like it’s almost like a brainstorm session with things from our past experiences to understand other people as well.

Great answer. So multiple purposes like it um I got some general questions for you, not much context that I can deliver, but how can people build their audience? How do you answer that one? Building your audience? I think a lot of that minds up going around the that often on your website. I think that is one of the main things that I see because you typically and you probably know the study that this is from but it’s stated that there’s seven touches with a company typically before you trust them enough to make a purchase and if you’re not getting people on your email list and if you’re not having those things, like if you’re one of the ways that you can do that is to be a guest on a podcast or to write different blog articles for major like major brands that are serving that audience.

Like finding places that that audience is and having them opt in to your emails I think is a lot more beneficial than followers on instagram or followers on facebook twitter because you control how many times your messages seen like you you can write like a bi weekly bi monthly newsletter that is full of value and you’re able to nurture that relationship. And so seven comes up a lot quicker than if you’re just relying on different algorithms. Two get your posts across, get your message across. And so finding those those places that have your ideal audience that are not competitive to you because they’re not serving them in the same way but providing that value for them through whatever guessing it is. I think that is the way that I’ve seen the most growth.

So you’re building your own list at the moment then? Yeah. Yeah. How’s it going? It’s it’s going well, it’s um I’ve tried different tactics like I’m always testing things out and I think that the ways that I have seen it the most and that’s why I was expressing that is through different like I wrote an article for a magazine and I’ve written like different ones for different blogs and being guests. I think those those are where I’ve seen the most gross anything um that you shall we say favor so favorite stuff that you’ve written that we could we could go to that could link to in the notes. Um Yeah, I can I can send you a list of those or I can um one of the ones that I have done is it’s actually on target internet marketing.

I don’t know if you’ve heard of that. It’s a British company and so that was a fun experience um because of the way that it came about, I was listening, it was just a podcast that I I would listen to and still listen to and they said something on there just kind of sarcastically about um they were testing out a and I think this is beneficial to its uh the title generator, like you can see different titles that would work best for your articles and work best for different emails and everything. And so they were testing one of those out and it said the seven ways to rank poorly in s. c. o. And so it doesn’t understand completely like it’s not advanced ai but so it was pretty funny and they were like, you know, I would actually read an article on that and so just because of the title, it’s like it’s not what you would expect.

And so I wrote an article on that and send it to them and I think that was my favorite story with that because there, again being kind of sarcastic about it, but I took it as literal and so just like finding those opportunities, listening to people um understanding like what what is unique about them and then appealing to that and then providing that value. Like I had no idea whether they were gonna post it or not. And so just like taking those leaps providing value first and then whatever happens happens, it’s a cool story. Is there anything that I should have asked you about today. Um I, I think you covered it for the most part. I think that a lot of the, I mean you hit on a lot of the things that I’ve been working on, cool, I suppose we’ve got, we’ve got one more then and it’s a, when did you first know you wanted to become an entrepreneur one? Yeah, Church story or it was actually when I was six years old, we had just moved over to Hungary and my family had a family desktop and my parents had downloaded a widget on the computer and it was converting like the Hungarian forints to Bulgarian skeleton key to us dollars and I would look at that every day and I realized like, man, if I just traded in dollars and then traded out at different times, like you would actually make money just trading money and so I would just like watch that and imagine that I had money to do that with and so just, I think that’s when those gears started, started turning towards entrepreneurism.

So did you attempt to be a trader at some stage then I actually never have, that was just what kind of triggered it, but I’ve never done any forex. Well the, I did speak to someone who did it professionally, it’s like 14 hour days, you know, really, really stressed and nothing like what it looks on the, on the pictures that you see on the internet, but so it’s probably a good thing that I didn’t start out that way because I might not be here today, it sounds like you’re doing things a lot more positively than being a trader, but six years old is a very young age to learn that lesson. Um So yeah, you must you must be predisposed to it, any theories on why that is um that was a really good question and nobody’s ever asked me that before, I I think it may be just because of that, not wanting to kind of go in the normal direction of things like entrepreneurs, like they can’t really be normal if they want to risk everything and they want to make their own life, like make their own products and so I think that they seem normal to me to you because that’s how we do things, but it’s just like figuring out ways to kind of Go against what the norm is, like the 9-5, like every everybody in school would like tell me about getting a job and everything and that kind of turned me off towards that because it was what everybody was doing.

So it may be something along those lines, I’ll have to think about it more. What would you say you’re a contrarian? Uh probably most people would say that, have you got any closing thoughts for us. Um I think that the last thing that would maybe benefit people is to really hone in on that creativity because if we think about it, like we’re all super creative at one point and we a lot of times let ourselves stop going down that direction because it seems like it’s impossible. It seems like everybody’s doing it this way. So there’s standard operating procedures for a reason. Like why why are we not just like going along with that? It’s a lot easier that way. But it starts out easier that way. It starts out easier to go along with everything.

But it gets harder if you want to grow and just figuring out ways that are more optimal, different that go against the grain I think is important because it helps you to Be that only not try to be the 1% better than somebody else’s procedure that you’re doing the same thing. But finding ways that you’re able to stand out and help people in ways that they need that other people are not serving more fun as well. Right. Exactly, Nathan. Where’s the best place for people to find you? They can find me on my website, lemonlaunch.com and everything is there that they may need. It’s a cool website, name, appreciate it. Thanks for being a great guest today. Thanks for having me.