#231 – Thought Leadership & Free Enterprise With Nicky Billou

Thomas green here with Ethical Marketing Service. On the episode today, we have Nicky Billou. Nicky, welcome. Thomas, it’s an honor to be here man, thanks for having me on the show. It is an honor to have you. Would you like to take a moment and tell the audience a bit about yourself and what you do. 100%. I am an immigrant to Canada from Iran. My family are Christians and when the Islamic revolution happened in Iran, my father, my late father was a great man, decided that being Christians in a theocratic state wasn’t the best idea for his family. He moved us to the Free West. I’ve been forever grateful to my father for being farsighted enough to make that happen. My father was my hero, he was an entrepreneur. He used to tell me growing up, Do you know son that this week we fed 51 families, ours and the 50 employees that he had working for him, he’s a very proud man and everyone who ever met Napoleon Billou and that was his name, he had a great first name, Napoleon, said that this is a man who lifted people up, this is a man who if you knew him he was going to make your life better just by knowing him. And I thought to myself, entrepreneurs must be the greatest people in the world because my dad’s an entrepreneur and he’s my hero, so I always wanted to be an entrepreneur.

I always admired entrepreneurs, I did a lot of reading and studying in school, I read the works of Ayn rand her magisterial books at shrugged and the fountainhead as well as some of the other books like anthem and we the living spectacular writer that really articulated the case for free market capitalism in a brilliant and beautiful way and and and myself, I just saw that unlike what the news media says about entrepreneurs and business people, these were problem solvers, these were people that came forward and looked for ways to bring solutions to the thorniest problems we all face because what is business after all, but the solving of acute problems that people in society face for a profit, right? And that’s really at the end of the day, what businesses and what business always has been and always will be and you know, I I just felt to myself that every entrepreneur with a dream, every entrepreneur with a passion to make a difference, who wants to make the world a better place is somebody that I admire is somebody who has the courage to get past the naysayers and make good things happen.

And today my favorite entrepreneur is a living entrepreneur is Elon musk. My favorite entrepreneur of all time is Steve Jobs. My vision is I’m looking to help the entrepreneur. I’m looking to help the men and women, the good hearted people that want to make a difference. We’re not talking about people like cartel drug dealers and folks like that. Those aren’t the kind of entrepreneurs we’re talking about here, We’re talking about the good men and women who wanted in an ethical way, make the world a better place. I’m all about that and I’m proud to say that I’ve worked with hundreds of entrepreneurs and we’ve got a pretty great track record. We’ve helped 11 of them add anywhere from one million to 38 a half million to their annual income. We’ve helped another 60 odd add anywhere between 100 and $500,000 a year to their income. That’s what juices. Me that, that’s what makes me excited. I’ve also written seven books. A couple of them have been number one international best sellers and uh I host a couple of podcasts. I host a podcast for thought leaders. I have people like Jack Canfield, Mark victor, Hansen john Maxwell on there as well as Murray folio and I also have a podcast for men that deals, It’s not a business podcast at all.

It deals with men’s issues and how to be a better man and navigate the world of the 26 21st century that in a nutshell is Nikki Bella, it’s a great introduction. Thank you for sharing. I don’t know what to ask you about first, if I’m honest because there’s so much good stuff there. Of all the things I could ask you about, what do you prefer to discuss? Hey Thomas, I’m happy, I’m happy to follow your lead, but I’ll tell you this. Um, one of the things that I think today every entrepreneur needs to be aware of is that we’re living in a time where you and your courage are needed more than ever. Your desire to build something for yourself is what’s making the world a better place. So if you’re an entrepreneur and you’re feeling discouraged, I want to give you some encouragement or if you’re thinking about becoming an entrepreneur, maybe what’s going on in the world is scaring you, you’re thinking there’s too much chaos. I want to encourage you that just say, hey, this is good. One of my mentors is a man named Brian Scudamore. He founded 1 800 got junk, which is a multibillion dollar brand.

He made millions out of junk, which is, you know, pretty amazing stuff and he said entrepreneurs thrive on chaos. So we’re living in chaotic times. This is an opportunity better than any other time in history. You can win if you have the right mindset, the right attitude and the right support. I think it’s very important for every entrepreneur not to try to do everything alone. That’s the entrepreneur’s dilemma. They try to do it all themselves and it’s it’s it’s it’s not the right way to go forward. You need to have a good team, you need to have the right mentors, you need to have coaches, you need to be part of peer groups. All those things is super important for you to do as an entrepreneur. Well, thank you for that. I’ve got all the things lined up in my head of the things that you talked about in your introduction. For whatever reason, I’m interested to know what you learn from ATlas shrugged. Ayn rand. I have watched some interviews from Ayn rand, but I actually haven’t read the books. So in terms of what you learn, can you also share what you’ve used that’s been useful in your business endeavors. Well, first of all, you gotta go read Ayn rand’s books, man, you won’t be able to put them down once, once you, once you start reading them and I recommend that you read the fountainhead first, then you read atlas shrugged in that order.

Okay, um, if you have the other books that Iran has written some of our smaller books like anthem and we the living in capitalism a new ideal. And all those kinds of books. You can read those in any order you want but found head first. And then atlas shrugged. They’re both big thick books. But you’re you’re absolutely gonna love them. The Fountainhead was made into a movie in the fifties starring the late great Gary cooper. And I gotta say it’s one of the greatest movies of all time. But here’s the the core of the philosophy of Ayn rand as an author is that she believed in the magisterial uh greatness of the individual. And she was utterly opposed to the collective crushing that. And I believe in that because you know, the work that I do is very much focused on helping people develop very powerful personal brands. So the individual is very important to me. I think that the state and the collective wants to crush the individuality out of us once it’s all to be conformist. Well that’s not what freedom is all about. Freedom is all about you as an individual and allowing you to express yourself, allowing you to build a life of your own choosing and your own creation.

Well, I teach that with the personal branding work that I do, I help people go deep into their own experience into what they’ve done, pull out the stuff there that they’ve learned as a result of of the triumphs the tragedies that they gone through and then utilize that to develop I. P. And take that I. P. And commercialize it monetize it so that you get paid. And not only do you get paid but you get paid big. That’s what I teach people how to do. That’s what I’ve done for myself. And I believe that brand has it right has always had it right because she understands and understood because she’s passed away now of course that the planet is composed of individuals. Yes. Collective thinking and action has its place. But it cannot come at the expense of individual freedom. Individual expression and the glory and creativity that the mind of a single individual can create a single individual with a brilliant idea can change the world.

We’ve seen that time and time again. You’ve ever watched Apple’s ad that they put together called think different when steve jobs came back from exile to lead the company starts off something like this. Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the visionaries, the round pegs in square holes. You know And then you’ve got like video footage of people like nelson Mandela and Richard Branson and Amelia Earhart. And you see these people these were all individuals these were people with dreams that everyone said were crazy. Can you imagine if collective thinking had stopped these people where our world would be because these are the people these individuals are the ones that move the human race forward. I’m all about moving the human race forward through. Unleashing the power and the majesty of the individual and their power that they can create by having this incredible personal brand, this incredible knowledge that they have, that puts them out there and turns them into icons. Well, you mentioned steve jobs as another person who let’s say inspired you, what have you, would you say you’ve learned from him?

The biggest thing I learned from steve jobs is that your y matters more than anything. You know, it’s it’s not what you’re selling and any of that stuff, it’s why you’re doing it. People Simon Sinek said, people don’t buy what you do, they buy, why you do what you do. And steve jobs is brilliant, articulating that, you know, Apple was a company that steve jobs envisioned was all about being a force for good, because they were inspired by those brilliant individualists, those iconoclast of icons. And Apple was a company that stood for, Unleashing that in every individual and it’s become the biggest, most valuable company in history as a result. Would you mind sharing your way? Absolutely. Well, my wife is very straightforward, I believe in the entrepreneur, I believe in the individual, I believe in the mastery and the majesty and the magisterial nous of their dreams. I think every human being who’s in business has this incredible fantastic dream and I want to help them unleash it to the greatest extent possible.

I wanted to make the most money to have the biggest impact, to have, the biggest influence that they possibly could have. I want them to achieve their greatness at a level that they can never ever imagine except in their wildest dreams and let me make no mistake about it as a good capitalist, I want him to get paid. I really get excited when people make a lot more money, that makes me happy. One of the questions that I had lined up beforehand is how you can add, I think it’s $20-$30,000 this year, just through some advice. So would you mind sharing what that is? Absolutely. Um So numbers are interested. Number one is Thomas, you can’t look and sound like everybody else, you gotta be different, you just got to be different because if you’re stuck in that sea of sameness is the great dr Nieto Cuban says you are not gonna go anywhere, you got to be an oasis of differentiation, so that’s the first thing.

So you gotta find a way to not sound like everybody else. Number two is you got to understand that you’re in business, you’re in business, it’s wonderful to do podcasts, I love podcasts, I do it myself, I come on shows like this, but podcasts are an adjunct to your activity to create business and business is about solving acute problems for people at a profit, Acute problems for people at a profit. If you’re not thinking about doing that every day, you’re not in business, you want to make $20,000 held this year this month, go find some people that are facing acute problems and offer to solve it for them at a profit, which means asked if they want to do business with you. So for example thomas, if you came to me, the problem I solve the acute problem I solved for a lot of the people, the the coaches, consultants and experts that I speak to is they don’t make enough money, they’re stuck on an income plateau. You came to me and you said to me Nicky, I need to make more money. I’ve been stuck at this plateau for Six months, eight months, 12 months, two years, whatever the number is and I got to get off of it.

Alright, I would ask you a few questions I’d ask you, I said, hey thomas, why you want to get off of it and then you’d answer me and then I’d say what’s prevented you from getting off of it so far? And you answer And then I would say to you all right on a scale of 1-10, how important is it for you to get off of it right now? And I want you to answer that question honestly because a lot of people automatically say, oh it’s 10, but it’s really not a 10, It’s not a 10, there’s a lot of things getting in the way of that thinking, so I get to the heart of that matter. If there are 10, then I’m gonna tell them very straightforwardly, this is how I can help you. And I put together a program. I’ve got a program I do called you know the the branded thought leader immersion workshop. And it’s three days where we show you how you can create very powerful personal brand and get out there and start selling to people. And I’d say promise you need to do this program. This program is gonna give you all the tools you need to to know and having your toolkit so that you can get out there. The last thing I’d say to you is you’ve got to get in front of people who need what you have to offer, who have the problems that you have.

And if you’re not doing that and you’re not asking for the sale, you’re never gonna make any more money. That’s the truth. And if people listen to this episode yet, one thing from this conversation and that one thing was this, you know, business is business and you got to get in front of people. You got to solve problems for them. You gotta ask for the sale. I’ve done my job. Don’t make 30 grand from that in a single month. You could have one conversation to make a $30,000 sale just from this. Thank you for that. The other person that you mentioned in your introduction was Elon musk very in the news of late. What would you say you’ve learned from Ellen? Well, first of all, never bet against Elon. That’s what I’ve learned. Never, ever, ever bet against Elon always bet for Ellen. And on Ellen, because if you do that, you’re gonna prosper and if you don’t, you won’t, This guy is the richest businessman in history right now. There’s a reason for that. He’s a farsighted entrepreneur. And I think if he’s got a company, you should invest in his company. And I think if he’s, you know, sharing his insights on where he thinks the world is going, where he thinks businesses going, you should listen. There’s a reason he’s the richest man in history.

That’s number one. Second thing that I’ve learned from. Ellen is Ellen is a master at standing out. In fact, it’s interesting that you should mention him because part of our personal branding is we want to help people be Elon musk in their space, What does that mean? That means you’re known for something. So it’s important to be known for something. What’s Ellen known for? Well, you tell me thomas, what’s Ellen known for in business Tesla and SpaceX. And what did Tesla’s basic stand for? Tesla is about electric cars. To pushing electric cars to tackle the climate change issue. And SpaceX is a multi planetary species, so that we don’t sort of die on Earth. Right. So that’s true as far as it goes, but I’d say that his wife is even stronger and more visceral than that for both of those companies. So for Tesla, Ellen imagines a future where there’s no need to use fossil fuels ever again. Now, whether you agree with that vision or not, it’s a very compelling vision.

And Ellen says, I imagine a world where energy is being used from sources that in no way pollute the planet now. A lot of people argue that you know, producing electric electricity for those cars. It does pollute the planet as well. But Ellen would argue it pollutes the planet far less than using fossil fuels. Who’s right, Who’s wrong? I don’t know. I do know the vision is very compelling and people like, oh my God, imagine a future where you know, we don’t have to to pollute the planet to drive and get around in any way, shape or form. Pretty cool, compelling message that he’s got there. SpaceX, Yeah. You know what Life on Earth could be finite. We need to find new new new horizons, we need to find new paths, new places to go. So that’s what SpaceX is all about. And that captures the imagination of everybody with a dream, wow, cool. Could there be life off planet Earth? You know, it’s pretty darn cool stuff and that’s why people buy Tesla people want to work for Elon musk even though he’ll pay them like half or a third of what other people will go.

But they line up to work for him and that’s why investors throw money at them. He’s a branded thought leader in his space now, imagine if you were a branded thought leader in your space, imagine if you were well known, professionally famous it were you’d have people lining up to want to work with you and you also have people that would be interested in buying your products and services and if ever there was a need to invest, probably attract investors that way to to me that’s the most important thing that Elon musk has contributed to my thinking and I believe to the thinking of every businessman who’s got the sense to be able to look at this. And so part of what I teach people is I teach them You want to become ill and must give you space. I got, I got a way to help you do that because if you become the alone, must give you space, you can easily add $20, to your income this year. Heck! You can add $100,000 to your income this year or even a quarter million dollars to your income this year. But more importantly, if you do this over a period of time Tony Robbins said that You under arrest, you overestimate how much you can achieve in a year, you underestimate how much you can achieve in five years.

So maybe this year you make an extra 50 grand, But maybe in five years you’re up to $500,000 a year and as a solo preneurs, that’s a wonderful amount of income agrees. Well, the last person I want to talk to you about from your introduction is your dad, because you said that he inspired you to, let’s say, be an entrepreneur. At what point do you start your entrepreneurial journey? Well, I had it in my mind to become an entrepreneur when I was in school, but I didn’t do it, I got into working in corporate and um I was in My early 30’s when I finally took the plunge and became an entrepreneur, and the last corporate job I had was with a a dot com company that became a dot bomb and went bankrupt and that kind of forced me to become an entrepreneur and you know, I’ve never looked back, it’s, it’s a beautiful thing, God intended for me to be on this journey. And I believe that I believe that’s why, you know, the last company I worked with went bankrupt and Uh it’s, it’s been a wonderful journey ever since, that was back in 2001.

So I’ve, I’ve been in the journey of entrepreneurship ever since. So when the your employer at the time when they had difficulties in the dot com bust, what was that feeling like? And what did you do? It was terrified man. It was absolutely terrifying at the time. What I did is I tried to get another job, but there were no jobs to be had. So I had to start doing my own thing. So what do you do? Um I started off as a, as a fitness trainer, fitness coach and I did that for a number of years, became partners with a couple of olympic gold medalists. We actually created some programs, wrote some books. It was wonderful. Name of that company was transformed T R A N Z, the number four M dot com, wonderful company. And these gentlemen were spectacular athletes and really had some great knowledge, but the idea was good, but it was ahead of its time. It didn’t pan out. Then I went off on my own for a while and then I got into the world of uh of being a business coach, business advisor.

I was going through a divorce at the time, I was watching a fellow do a talk and it just made a lot of sense to me. I walked over to him, I said, hey, um, I really like what you said, I think, you know, I’d like to work with you, I was defeated. Then, you know, it was a horrible time in my life going through divorce and this fellow looked at me and said, okay, um, but I charge five grand for five hours of coaching, there’s no refunds. And to me that was all the money in the world at that time, I didn’t have it, right? I mean right now, you know, problem. But back then it was a huge problem. And I said, I don’t have that kind of money. He said, I know I’m gonna give you some advice. Kid, kid wasn’t much older than I was, I was a kid. To him, he said, doesn’t matter how much money you have, matters how resourceful you’re prepared to be, if you really want change, you’ll figure this out. So I said, okay, give me a couple of days and I went out to some people I’ve been in discussions with about doing some fitness coaching and I told him, hey, I got good news, I need money. So I’m gonna give you the deal of the century half price.

But the deal expires at the end of this call and you need to send me the money right away you and you out and two people said they were in and that was all she wrote, hired this guy and within four months of working with him, I was making six figures in four months. It was the most money I’d ever seen in that short period of time. And he taught me that I had something to share with people and he said you should get out there and you should help people. And so I did, I wrote a book and becoming number one international bestseller, which was super cool. And as a result of that, I got to meet some more people and I got involved in the business of personal branding and leadership and it’s just been very gratifying. It’s been a lot of fun. It’s an amazing story. There’s lots to ask you about just in, in that alone because I must admit I didn’t see it going that way. I thought that you were going to take a different route rather than taking, take him up on his offer. But presumably um, the value was there in exchange for the fee that you paid.

Would you say that’s accurate? Yeah buddy, but you gotta understand, I did not have that money period. I did not have it. I and this is what I say to people, Robin Sharma, the author of the monk who sold his Ferrari taught me this. He used to be a fitness client of mine and then I became a client of his on the business side. He said if you ever want to double your income in any given year, you’ve got a minimum triple your investment in personal professional development. And I asked him what if you don’t have the money. He said it’s an investment and that’s what businesses do, they invest and the most important asset in your business is you, you got to invest in yourself if you’re unwilling to invest in yourself, you’re screwed. So for these people who are like, oh my God 15,000, I can’t ever spend that. You’re an idiot. No offense, but you’re a complete idiot. Come up with the money invest in yourself. If you don’t invest in yourself, you’re screwed. You’re screwed. You’re never gonna get better. The asset you have to improve is you. And if you suck as a business person, if you suck at selling, if you suck at promoting yourself, guess what?

You must come up with some money, you must invest in yourself and you gotta do it. There is no other way. It will not improve. You’re not gonna listen to a podcast and magically make 100 grand. I’m sorry. It doesn’t work that way. You’re not gonna read a book and magically make 100 grand. It doesn’t work that way either. All the information you need is in a podcast on the book. But you know why people don’t make money from listening to podcasts and reading books? Well because it was free and near free and guess how much they value information they get for free and near free. They value it at what they paid for it. That’s the facts. But information that they paid for dearly Trust me, they’re gonna make sure they get a return. I paid this guy five grand To me five grand right now is nothing. Five grand then was all the money in the world. I was so on point to get a return on that investment, I was committed. I was focused focused, that’s what allowed me to win. Well, it touches on something, which I was going to ask you about and that is the charlatan marketer.

How can you avoid him or her? Um, and I guess the question ties into how would you know necessarily whether that person is going to deliver on that type of promise if you like? Well, I would hope that in this day and age you’re good at, you know, using google and duck, duck, go and those kinds of search engines to go check out the person you’re talking to and then go see if you can even talk to some people that actually did business with them. Not some written testimonial on a web page, but real human beings that’s pretty straightforward and simple. A personal have a reputation. Number one. Uh, and number two is um, you you ought to become a man of faith. So I believe in prayer, I think God guides me. So I pray on things and if God is telling me this is a good idea, I’ll do it. And if God’s telling me it’s a bad idea, I won’t do it. But maybe you’re not a person of faith. And if that’s not the way you want to go, then you’ve got to find a way to go and and make sure that this person is for real Okay, because if you are going to spend $10,000 on somebody, they’re not for real.

That’s a problem You know? And but here’s the truth. Okay. I hate to say this, but it’s the truth. Most Of the programs, even by the biggest names in the industry, you’re lucky at 5% of the people who do those programs get results, you’re lucky 5% right? Like these are the biggest names in the industry and I’ve done their courses and I love them, you know? But there’s a reason for that reason. Number one is, some of the material could be outdated reason. Number two is, there’s not really a structure for you to get into action around it. They just teach you a bunch of information. The reason number three is, well, they could just suck at what they’re doing. So what they’re teaching is the wrong stuff that What we teach the way we do it. We learn from a guy at Australia named Matt Church. Matt Church has 83% of the people who do his program over a 20 year period have gotten anywhere between a quarter million and 2.5 million extra revenue. Those numbers spoke to me. That’s why I ended up doing some programs with Matt churches organization and I wanted to be like matt and I wanted to help people become successful.

So I really took a lot of time to make sure the people in our community were successful when I do pitches at our events. I’m not going to pitch, I bring people up from the community and say, hey, hey Valerie, nice to meet, nice to have you up here, tell your stories. So she gets up, she tells her story. I was in this place when I was coming, I was doing well, I’m doing six figures, blah, blah, blah, but I wasn’t doing what I wanted to be doing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so you know what, you learn from us, Well, what I learned from you guys was how to brand myself and I branded myself in this way this way this way, Oh cool. And what were the results? Were the results were six folded, my income, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You follow what I’m saying me doing that allows me to come across as not a charlatan because yeah, I do some selling and at the event I’m the one who asked for the sale, but I have my people sing my praises, I don’t sing my places that’s powerful, It’s very powerful. And if you got people that are in business and they’ve got people singing their prices, it’s good.

And then you got to see are there methods correct? Now in this industry, there’s a lot of people today that do not ever, ever want to spend one thin dime, not a penny on selling, they don’t wanna sell, they don’t want to learn how to sell, they just want magically the sales to come. So they want to do online marketing. Yay, let’s do social media and online marketing, that’s how we get sales wrong, wrong, wrong. That’s not how it’s gonna happen. You’re gonna get sales thomas when you get in front of people and you ask for those sales, Even the great Tony Robbins, he is asking for the sale now, he’s got a big enough name that people will go online and they’ll buy from him. But he’s got a team of people that sell on his behalf. And those people outsell the internet by a country mile, why people want that person to person comfort, they want to hear your voice. They want to look you in the eye, even if it’s on, you know, platform like riverside or zoom, they want to go, okay, I feel good, I trust this fellow, let’s go, that’s the way it’s got to be.

And charlatan marketers, they’re gonna be really good at pushing every button. You have, they’re gonna be really good at selling you a dream. Like one of the ones sold this thing called Omnipresence. Omnipresence and I’m going okay, what does that even mean? I mean, you’re everywhere all at once. I’m like, ok, how’s that gonna help me? Actually said, well everyone’s gonna know you okay. It’s good that everyone knows you the right people know us better and if they just know me, that’s not valuable. If they know me as someone who can solve a problem that they have now that’s valuable. So a charlatan marketer will not offer you an outcome, they will not be outcome driven, they won’t speak in, in ways that make sense. They’ll just hit your emotional buttons. I got a dear friend of mine and he’s a good guy and his programs are really great, but the way he sells is a little charlatan marketer ish and he talks about you got to have this, you gotta have that or else it’s nothing’s gonna work for you.

And he just lines up four or five reasons why not having this. We’ll just say for the sake of argument the podcast, okay, you don’t have a podcast, you’re a loser. No one’s gonna want to do business with you forget it. Well, is that really true? It’s not true. There’s plenty of people without podcasts that do well, can podcast hope and accelerate your business 100%. They’ve done great things for me, millions of dollars because of having my own podcast and being on other people’s podcasts. We are absolutely fans of podcast, but to sell a podcast to somebody based on them needing it without it. Their life is over. It’s bullshit. Some people, it’s too early in business for them to have a podcast, they don’t have a good message, They haven’t lined up their ideal target market, they just want to talk, okay, that’s what you want to do great. But if you’re having a podcast to drive business, you better be clear on who your target market is. You better have a good message that speaks to an acute problem that they have. That’s it. Pure and simple. You’re not doing that, you’re good. Great. Answer. The last thing I was gonna talk to you about regarding your conversation with your Consultult or coach was that in theory you could have spoken to your customers at the time and made that offer um and gotten that 5000 if you will at any point.

But because you are outcome orientated and you wanted to generate that revenue, that’s when you did it and that’s when you got the money. Have you used that? Um no scenario or outcome driven approach from learning from that particular story. Listen, I’ve been talking to these guys for weeks and they hadn’t, they hadn’t gotten off the dime to make a decision. I just gave them an incentive to make a decision and I absolutely do that with people. You know, like, let me just put it to you this way, Let’s say you and I were having that discussion, right? Let’s say you’re like, Hey, Nikki, I want to make an extra 50 grand this year. And I said, all right, thomas y and we got to the bottom of that and I said, okay, we can help you, Here’s the deal. We’ve got a program coming up in july, you can participate in this program, you can fly to Canada or you can do it over zoom either way and the program will give you X, Y, and Z. And you’ll have all the tools you need to make an extra 50 year and this year and you go, okay, Nicky, That sounds great. Well, you know what?

Let me think about it. I have two choices. If you say, let me think about it. Choice number one is okay, think about it. No problem. Get back to me, whatever. Right Choice # two is to just look you in the eye and go thomas really need to think about it. All right, what is there to think about? And I’d be just blunt. What is there to think about? I just say this to you. I’d say there are three options. There are three reasons. People say they want to think about something. What is they genuinely need more information? If that’s the case, let’s keep talking until you have all the information. You need to make a decision. Secondly, they’re scared and they put off making a decision because there’s a dollar amount that scares them. That that needs to be paid and they’re like, oh my God, Oh my God, what if it doesn’t work out? What if What if What if What if What if what if? Right? And third is they really want to say no, but they don’t have the balls to say no to your face. Those are the only three things that are happening right there. They really don’t have enough information, which, you know, I should give them until they have enough information. They’re driven by fear.

And I should either help them get over their fear or let them see that their fear is driving the bus, not they or they don’t have the balls to tell me no to my face. I would rather hear the no. Then I have to follow up with you 1000%. I do not like following up with people. It is a waste of time. It is a waste of energy for me. And for them, energetically, we’re in this messed up kind of movement that is kind of just fizzles. If you’re a no, you’re better off to saying, you know what? Thanks for your time. This isn’t a fit for me. I’m a no. And momentarily I may go, oh, that’s too bad. But you know, I’m also feeling relieved because I have a straight answer and I’ll just tell you, hey, thomas, I appreciate. Could you, could you, would you mind just, I’m not gonna try to convince you otherwise, I just want to know for my own edification why you want to know if you’re gracious enough to tell me that will help me either you’re with the wrong client or gave you the wrong information. Whatever. It’s good. It’s good to know why a person’s no. But if you’re driven by fear, then my job as your coach even before you hire me is to help you see you’re driven by fear and ask you if you want to be driven by fear.

You want to be driven by your dreams. Don’t let your fear choke out your dreams is one of the things I tell people all the time, because fear will choke out your dreams and then we’ll either get you to a space where you’re gonna go, nope, screw it, I ain’t doing it. Which means you become a no or you get past your fear and you go, you know what? You’re right, My fear is choking up my dreams, screw that, I’m going for it. So that’s also a good outcome. And then the final one, you don’t have the balls to tell me no. You know what I’m saying? Like come on, just you know, tell me no, let’s make it easy for both of us. You know what I’m saying? Let’s not be one of these people that just drag ship on and on and on and on and on and on. Get the information to make a decision, say no if you mean no. And if you’re scared, either stop being scared and go for it or be honest, that you’re being scared and say no. And to me, that’s a way better answer than let me think about it. Another answer. People love to give you is I had to talk to my wife. I’m gonna talk to my husband, I gotta talk to my my dead ancestor and have a seance with them and see what you know their spirit thinks about this.

Um Or I’m gonna talk to my business partner now if their spouse is a part of their business, then yes, it’s probably good that you understand that up front and you ask them if they wanna, you know, have that person be a part of the conversation because otherwise the decision won’t get made right. But if the person is not part of their business while they’re lying to you, they’re lying to you because they don’t need to talk to their spouse, they make decisions without their spouse all the time. They bought you know, multi $1000 purchases. Hey, I just bought this new car honey. Hey honey, I just bought this mink coat for you. Hey honey, I just bought us a $10,000 vacation to the Turks and Caicos. So it’s a lie. They don’t need to talk to their partner. They’re using it because they want to deflect making a decision or they want to say no and they don’t have the balls to say no to you again and again. Here’s what I’ll tell somebody who’s saying that to me. I go listen is your spouse in your business yes or no, no, yes. Okay. My mistake. Let’s get them on the call.

I’m withdrawing the offer until I speak to them and I decide if I want to work with both of you because I like you, make sure I like your spouse. Maybe I won’t, maybe they won’t like me either way. I need to interview your spouse before. So I’m withdrawing the offer to work with you. I’m not going to work with you until I speak with your spouse. That’s number one. The other reason could be uh you know, they’re they’re just telling you because they don’t want to say no to you. And again, I’ll just say, look, I’m giving you full permission to be an adult and say no, you do not have to. In fact, if you really mean no, I’d prefer you say no now because I don’t want to keep chasing you. I just don’t. I hate chasing people know just most people will go, okay, Yeah, you’re right. I only met. No, that’s great. And then the final reason again is they’re afraid. Once again, they’re afraid they’re using the spouse as an excuse to you know, not address their fear. And then I’ll just have the conversation with them to address their fear. What are you afraid of? You know what I mean? And at the end of the day, those are the discussions that need to be had with everybody. Now there’s gonna be some people that are just gonna respond badly to all this. And if they respond badly to all this, you gotta dance with that, see if you can help make that happen.

But if they also respond badly to all this. Maybe not a good fit for your business. Its business is important because they’re not just interviewing you, you’re interviewing them. Do I want to work with this person? Are they coachable? Are they fun to work with? Do they energize me? If Your energy goes below an eight out of 10 when you’re working with a potential client, you shouldn’t work with them, you shouldn’t work with him. I’ve heard a pre supposition to say that businesses should accept everyone. I think it is a exactly as you say, which is you should choose your customers as much as they choose you. I choose my customers, I won’t take somebody on just because they’re in front of me. They got a pulse and a wallet, credit card screw that I made people millionaires man, I make people an extra $100,000 and $500,000 this year. My talents are incredible. Someone meets Nicky baloo. They potentially hit the jackpot in the lottery. Um And the truth of the matter is that I’m not sure if me working with them is a lottery for me.

I mean it could be make some cash and you know, I like cash, don’t don’t get me wrong. But if they’re an energy suck. If they’re uncoachable, that’s not good. I don’t want that. I want people to get results. I want to feel good about the work I do with people. So you know it’s got to be a two way street, they gotta feel good about working with me and I got to feel good about working with them and you should be up front with people and say this is a two way job interview right now, you’re gonna decide do I like this guy, do I want his help and I’m gonna decide do I like this guy, do I want to help? It was great advice on the topic of advice. Would you share perhaps what your best bit of business advice that your dad gave you? Be humble, the humble, you’re not better or smarter than anybody. You may have a better skill set than they do in one particular area, but they have a better skill set than you in another area. So be humble. Okay. Um I spoke to you beforehand about the near the end of the episode, always like to ask what success means to you.

So would you share what that is for you? Success to me means having the people in my life that I love uh win and be able to spend time with them and celebrate those wins and just be able to spend time more about other people than it is. I mean I do. Well, you know uh money is good, money is just there for me to be able to, so my family serve the people, I love to be able to spend time with them, do things with them. Um, it also is about other people period like I’m not super proud of how much money I made, I made good money, I’m super proud of all the people made rich and you know, one of my favorite stories is there was a woman who was the head of a major professional and personal development organization, Canadian arm this organization has been around for Right now 50 plus years and she brought in a partner and that partner, uh, and her clashed and he ended up forcing her out.

And when she came to see me, she was on the hunt for something. She worked with us and you know, in the first month she made $10,000 in the second month. She made 12003rd month, she made 18,000 In the 4th month. She made $62,200 in a single month. And her business took off from there. She, she did incredibly well and um, she lived in the city bottle its capital city of Canada. I live in Toronto. It’s a five hour drive. My oldest son had a soccer tournament in Ottawa and um, and drove him there and I called her while I was there and I said, hey, listen to my son and I were here this opportunity, you know, you have a son that’s his age, how’d you like to grab him, have the two boys meet and we could have lunch together on our way out of the city. She said, sure. So you know, um, we did that two boys hit it off. We had a nice chat for about an hour, hour and a half and headed home few weeks later, we had one of our quarterly branded thought leader emerging workshop events. And one of the things we do there as part of creating great energy is we have people share their wins.

So she got up and she stayed, she started to bawl cry and I just looked at her and I I said, did I do something wrong? Why is she crying? You know, and that’s one of my, that’s where I go, someone’s crying around me, I do something wrong like, and, and she just said, Nikki, you didn’t know this, but when you and your son came to meet me and my son, Um my son who he was a little kid at the time and I think he was 12 years old, mm asked me money, who are we gonna go meet? Because she said, hey, we’re gonna go for lunch? And she said, oh we’re going to meet mickey Ballou and a son. And he went to his mom and he said, mom, are we going to meet the man who saved our family? And I just looked at her on stage and I started to bawl and you gotta get thomas, I’m an old school masculine man, I don’t cry, I don’t cry in public. You know, I cry with my family, but don’t cry in public except the funerals started the ball.

We both hugged and she said you didn’t know this, but When I came to meet you, we were on the verge of losing our house. I hadn’t made money in 18 months. My husband hadn’t made a lot of money. We were losing our home, we were gonna be homeless on the street. You literally saved our family and I just sat there, you know, crying with her and we both hugged and cried and um the room was electric and here’s the beauty of it. This was not scripted. Everyone there who was a prospect for what we did, but every member, There was not one exception. And there were people who came in that room and told me I’m coming to do your event and I know you have an Upsell and I’m not buying so don’t try to sell me. They bought, they were the first people to buy and they came and they bought because they said to me because I talk about Charlton market who says you’re not a charlatan, you really give a ship, don’t you? And I go, yeah, I do. I said okay, I trust you and that’s, you asked me my why that’s my wife, I want more people come to me that are feeling that desperate, I need someone who can believe in them that can really help them and I’m learning, I’m the guy, that’s it, it’s an amazing story.

Thank you very much for sharing it. Um if it’s a, you know, a lot of value today, um and I really appreciate it. If people do want to connect with you or perhaps hire you, where do they go? So look, I’m all over social media, but the best thing to do is go to um this link, it’s E circle Academy dot com, that’s the word E and the word circle and then academy dot com forward slash appointment. Or if you just go to East Oakland County dot com, there’s a button in the top right hand corner and it says book is successful. Now, what’s the successful, successful is a super cool thing that I do with people where we basically go through a process of really understanding what your goals are, where you want to be and what the gap is. We’re gonna do a powerful gap analysis and I’m gonna put together a blueprint for what it’s gonna take to get you from point A to point B. This call is absolutely complimentary. If they let me know that they came through your show, let’s do that.

Now we ask that you fill out this application form, just so we make sure you’re actually in business, you’re actually trying to do all this stuff. Plus give me the information I need to to prepare the serious questions for you. But if you do this, I promise you your life will never be the same, your business will never be the same. This can completely transform your business and bring you to a space of magic and victory. So that’s what I suggest people do. Well, for everyone listening, please review the links in the description. Nikki, thanks again for your contribution and for being a great guest. Thomas, thanks for having me on. It’s a real honor to be here, brother.