#242 – Business Therapy With Gail Doby

Thomas Green here with Ethical Marketing Service. On the episode today, we have Gail Doby. Gail, welcome. Thank you so much, pleasure to be here. It is a pleasure to have you. Would you like to take a moment and tell the audience a bit about yourself and what you do? Sure, I’d be happy to do that. Well, I kind of look at myself as a business therapist. That’s a good way to talk about it in many ways and I work with entrepreneurs, especially creative ones that are looking to scale and grow their businesses profitably insanely, and that’s been a passion of mine for almost 15 years. Well, thank you for the introduction. I like the term the business therapy or you’re a business therapist. Of the, should we say, the common issues that people bring in their therapy, what tend to be ones that are repetitive that you see often? Well, I’d say the very first thing that I hear people complain about or come to us for is that they’re stuck and they might be at a particular revenue level and they haven’t been able to break through it or they have particular challenges with the way they’re operating their business and they’re not sure what to fix and what order to fix it.

And so when they come to me, they’re looking for a prescription and they need some help with figuring out exactly what are the steps I need to take and most importantly, I think what a lot of people don’t realize that in order to really grow your business, you have to grow yourself. So they don’t realize that we give them what they need and also what they want, but we start with what they want and then we’ll give them what they need, which is the piece of understanding that they need to work on themselves. Well, that is, you may be playing to my next question, because in therapy often, or at least my perception of therapy, is that the therapist often knows something that the, the person doesn’t know. And often it can be, should we say something, I don’t know some deeper, some deeper level going on. Is that something that you recognize in talking to your clients? Well, I think so, I don’t know about you, but every time that I dig in deep, I start finding out what their fears are and maybe what they’re impostor syndrome, impostor syndrome is and what it’s based on where did it come from, Where did it start and why is that holding them back?

Because a lot of times if they don’t know that that is the real reason their business isn’t growing. We can’t really do anything. I can help structurally, I can help people with financials, and you know, that’s part of my strength is being able to help people see their future and be able to make it a profitable plan for themselves, but until we fix this other piece, we can’t really make the big changes that a company needs to make. Well with that answer. I feel like I’ve got a better understanding of what the issue is, so basically you’re saying that the reason that a business doesn’t grow is down to the business owner, is that pretty much. Yes. Okay, interesting. So, and the question of what do they fear? What they’re limiting self imposed limitations are, that’s where the growth is, would you say that’s accurate? I would say that’s very true. They have fears of a few things and one of those is fear of success and they also have a fear of failure. So they have both the same time and that conflict is very difficult to deal with, especially if they don’t understand how it’s impacting their decisions and you can’t make good decisions if you’re doing it from fear.

So in order to get to a better place, we have to address whatever those underlying fears are before we can move forward. And then we also look at what their beliefs are around business and about growing their businesses and it’s really interesting, the whole process is a little bit intuitive and not necessarily clear when we first start. It just comes from asking a lot of questions and being curious, Well I’ve heard about and spoken a lot about fear of failure, so I would like to sort of pick your brains on that, but at the same time, what I haven’t spoken about is actually fear of success. So what sort of springs to mind for you there in terms of what that means and why it happens. It’s interesting because when people, when I ask people what their goals are and what their dreams are, sometimes they’re afraid of sharing their dreams because they’re scary and they’re scary because they haven’t done them before and their fear, it really comes down to the fact that they don’t know how to overcome that uncomfortable feeling of things, not being easy or that they’re not perfect at it to begin with.

And you have to get them past that idea that they have to be perfect. We just want to get them into action in the whole perfect as we go. So unlike an airline pilot that has to do a lot of practicing before it gets in the cockpit, most business owners have to do their practicing while they’re flying the plane and just add all of the pieces and parts to make sure the plane keeps flying and also accelerates and goes up. I sort of understand what you mean in the sense that as soon as you’re asked to do something that you don’t necessarily know how to do right now there’s a feeling of discomfort. Yes, absolutely. In fact I tell my clients one of the best things you can do is look for the areas of discomfort because that’s where you need to grow. It is the guide post of telling you what you need to be working on in your business. And for example, I took a sabbatical last year and one of the things that I did is I had a list of things I wanted to work on for myself and I knew that I needed to work on myself and I also needed to work on certain aspects of the business.

So I made a point of focusing on those things and I read a lot of books and I talked to a lot of people and I came out of sabbatical with just on fire with ideas and so for me it was about facing the discomfort and understanding that all I have to do is dive in and learn and learning is the key for overcoming that discomfort. And would you be willing to share any of those ideas that would be beneficial to others? Sure be happy to. I think one of the things that I found out is how much I let fear get in my own way and so being realistic about it as a coach, you need to face your own fears and the things that you’re not doing well because often what we need to learn is what we also teach and so as we teach, we learn. So it’s both things and so there were several things that I learned about myself and that was that I just needed to let go of frustrations with other people and just take responsibility for anything that I was contributing to the problem.

So I think that’s a really important lesson for most of the entrepreneurs that in many cases if we can look at what our contribution is to the problem, that will be a great insight for us that will take us much further in our businesses And what do you think about the the amount that we’re responsible, would you say that you’re 100% responsible regardless, or Yes, always, I think as the leader of the business, you’re 100% responsible for the results of the company and also of the success of the people on your team. So if you are having people issues and things are going wrong, maybe you had a hiring system failure or maybe you had an onboarding failure or maybe you had a training failure, but many times we’ll find that if we didn’t hire the right person and they really aren’t a culture fit that we had a hiring failure. So we have to pinpoint the actual bottom line real net problem that we’re dealing with and instead of fixing the symptom of the problem, we need to be looking at the root cause of the problem.

Well, this is actually something that I was going to ask you about because if I’m not mistaken, you’ve got some hiring expertise and in terms of timing we literally just pause the job online and now we’ve got all our applications to sift through. So would you be willing to share some hiring expertise? It’s a selfish question for me. Oh please, I love it. I love practical application. Well, I think in the hiring front, the first thing is to make sure that you have a clear picture of your culture and what your culture is for in terms of hiring and if you’re looking for particular people, I tend to like to hire people that fit the culture first and have a higher high desire to learn and are willing to dig in and maybe just do some things that they haven’t done before. And if I hire based on that more so than all the credentials that we might be looking for. I find that I find excellent hires that are willing to dive in and learn the structure of our business.

And to me that’s a really good thing to do. And then the other piece of this is making sure that in the hiring process you have a very good job description and you have great questions that will dive into that person’s culture fit with your company. Because I think a lot of people make mistakes, they hire people like them instead of people that really are appropriate to the job. So in terms of um hiring people who are for example willing to learn, do you do you have any tests that you introduced to in the interview process? Well I think there are just a number of questions you can ask people, what do you like to do? What are the things that excite you and how do you go about learning and just diving into the questions about something around the learning process for them and whether they’ve gone on to take additional courses, do they like to read outside of work? Do they like to read about business?

And if I find somebody that does those things those are the people I know I can train. Are there any mistakes that I should stay away from? Well besides just making sure that you make, that you do have clear culture words and that you can ask questions around that and find those right people don’t ignore the red flags because the red flags are your intuition is telling you something that’s very accurate and I find a lot of people when they’re desperate to hire somebody will just go ahead and overlook those because they want that person in a job so badly to help them. But as the old saying goes hire slowly fire fast and if you could do that and make sure that you’re always focusing on finding the right person for the right job and taking the time to make sure it’s a good fit for them and for you, you’re going to be happier with them and they’re going to be more productive. And then the other piece of this is to make sure that as you go through this process, you have your team, they need to be doing the interviews too because they will read people differently than you will and once you make the decision to hire, then the on boarding process is crucial for making sure that that person is the right there ready, they know how to perform in their job.

They know what the expectations are, they know where the coffee pot is, that they also know where everything is on the computer, so we have to remember that we have to look at it from a beginner’s viewpoint as the hiring manager because if we’re not looking at it as someone who’s coming in fresh and has no knowledge of our business, then we can assume that they know more than they do. So we have to make sure we do our job as hiring managers to ensure that they are really set up for success. And he takes on number of interviews, As far as how many they should go through before they go through the process. 3-5, I think it I think you need at least that many and if you don’t do that many, you’re going to miss things. And I think too that we need to give ourselves, it’s kind of like writing a great paper or a great letter, you might do a draft of it and then you sleep on it overnight, you come back and you look at it again and then you let it sit for a few more days and you come back and do it again, If it’s really important, which hiring is crucially important, then you’re gonna take the time to give yourself some time to let your subconscious do its job and tell you where you have some intuition coming in is telling you that that person either is a great fit or is not a good fit at all and again, just remembering to trust your gut and if you feel like you have two or three red flags and that person is probably not the right person for your team.

Well I appreciate the advice and I will remember it. So you have helped me even if it’s sort of the re learning or remembering things that you know you should do, I appreciate it. So coming back to fear of failure, um anything spring to mind for you there. Well feel if you’re a failure is always rooted in something childhood related and it’s hard to find and pinpoint that first time that we experienced that fear, but it usually is something that our parents have told us and maybe they’re trying to protect us but we have learned that as part of our structure, the way we think and so that fear of failure can live with us our whole life and we don’t even know that it was something that was said to us at an early age. So if you can take some time in journal about it and think about what that failure or that fear is that you have and what the root of it is, as soon as you can identify that you can usually release it very quickly because once you acknowledge it, then you can let it go.

So to me that’s one of the key things in learning how to deal with fear of failure and would you be willing to share what an example of something that you went through in relation to journaling and fear of failure, geez, fear of failure, I think that even though I wanted to be an entrepreneur, I was not necessarily ready for what it took to be an entrepreneur and I think one of the things that I have learned and especially worked on this is over sabbatical, is working on being very open and candid with people and telling them sometimes the hard truth because I never like to hurt people’s feelings and in reality, if you don’t give people honest feedback, then they are not going to know how to improve. So what I was doing is holding myself back and I was holding my employees back because of a fear of hurting somebody’s feelings. So as a leader of a company, that’s one of the things that you have to learn to do is to be able to give really good guidance and feedback and have you got any advice for someone who should do it, but perhaps hasn’t or needs to learn, Oh gosh, well, try something small, try it with somebody that you trust on the team and just let them know that you’re learning how to give better feedback and you can even talk to your employees and say this is something I’m struggling with and I’d like for you to hold me accountable for this and here’s what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna talk to you about the things that you’re doing really, really well and I’m going to also give you some guidance on some areas where I feel as if you can improve and at the end of this let me know how I did.

And from there just keep letting me know if this is the kind of guidance that you need because what I find is a lot of people leave because they don’t feel like they got honest feedback from their employer and I don’t think that works for us in the long term when we’re trying to build and scale a company we have to be honest with people if it’s not working or if something is maybe off track and we can help that person grow. That’s great advice. And I think that you touched on a few things which for example you mentioned the job description and the expectations of that person’s job and then honest feedback. So I feel like a lot of these things are fixable may be preventable if you know what you’re doing. So in terms of improvements that people can make when people come to you for advice on their business. For example, it doesn’t sound like although those problems are common from my perception, it doesn’t sound like they take a lot to change in terms of improvement.

Would you say that’s fair? I think that’s true because what we focus on does tend to improve and if we measure something and improve. So if we decide and we look at what the key problems are in our business and I know I do this quite a bit. I’ll sit down and I’ll just pull up a word document and I’ll start typing and I’ll look at what am I encountering encountering right this minute in the business. What is the root cause of that? And I try to look for the reasons why instead of blame because I don’t want to fix the blame on people. I want to fix the problem. So what is the root cause of the problem? And what if we could do one thing that would solve about 100 things that will take you to a different level in your business very quickly. But you can’t do it unless you sit down and spend some time thinking about your business. So I think that’s one of the keys that lot of people today are so busy. They don’t feel that they have time. But I bet you if they spent 15 minutes not looking at their social media they could spend 15 minutes identifying the root cause of a problem and they’re gonna have a much better situation at work.

And trust me, the social media will wait. Well we all spend, I shouldn’t say we all but a lot of people spend too much time on social media 100% on board with you there. I know that you have mentioned root causes. But in terms of what the say the most common surface level business owners come to you with what would you say is, well, these days, this is very interesting. But I would tell you that what I hear a lot today is, gosh, it’s everybody’s quitting because they’re looking for a better job. Well, why are they looking for a better job? And why are you having turnover in your business? Um I have very low turnover in my business. And part of it is because I’ve focused on culture and I think that if you do the right things in your business, you’ll keep people. So what people are looking at is they’re they’re using the excuse that we’re hearing in the economy, that it’s impossible to keep people and it’s impossible to hire good people.

And so they have this belief going in and therefore as they start having turnover, they’re not looking at what they could be doing to keep their people. So I think it’s really important to think about what could you do better. How can you onboard people better? How can you train the better, how can you have stay interviews to make sure that your employees are happy? How do you get that regular feedback so that you’re sure that you’re doing the right thing as an employer to provide a great workplace for your employees. And I think if you can start looking at it from that perspective, if you’re having a lot of things happening over and over again, then there is a root cause of that. And so I think that you can keep people, if you have the right perspective around how you build your business and the structure and people are looking today for praise, they’re looking for reasonable pay, they’re looking for a great culture, flexibility in the workplace, they’re looking for an opportunity to contribute and they’re looking for an exciting vision.

They want to see a vision for the business and they want to see how they fit with that and how they can contribute. So, if you have those pieces in place, you can have a wonderful relationship with your employees and they get really excited about helping you build that business. But if you are looking at it from the perspective of over there here, just to do a job, then you’re going to get exactly that and people walk out the door frequently and the cost of losing people is huge, just the amount of time and the stress for the owners and for the other team members when they have to pick up the slack is very, very difficult. So it’s really important to make sure that you’re doing the right things internally to keep people on your team. Would you be willing to share what your vision is? Sure. Well, my vision is to continue to help entrepreneurs grow their businesses to over $1 million dollars in revenue and profitably. So, And we are looking to scale our business over the course of 10 years to over 10 million.

So our goals are very clear with our business and we also include in that vision. Our goal is to help our clients have a wonderful experience with our community and also have the clarity about what they should do and what order. So we really help people get to that end result through the process of establishing their own vision. And then from there we help them with the road map of how to get there easily. And you mentioned the culture, how do you, how did you build a culture around that vision? Well, I think the culture starts with you personally as the owner of the business and you have your own values that you bring to the business. And there are two of us that are co founders of this business and we found that we have three very similar things that we believe in and it’s relationships and contribution and gosh, I just had a blank on my own third one, but it’s relationships and contribution and it’s also loyalty.

And so loyalty is a huge part of our belief system and we actually just had our employees sit down in January and give us some words that they felt, described who we were as a company. And as we came into our quarterly meeting last week, we came up with an acronym called picnic and we used six words that really exemplified what we believe we are as a company. And it’s based on not just our belief system as owners, but it’s also of our employees. So Picnic is the acronym for all the different words, but we’re really excited about it because it’s something that it is, is co created and when you co create you have people buy into it more and thank you for that. The picnic, are you willing to share about what the various, how that’s broken down? Sure. Let me see if I can remember all of them, but positive intent, um initiative, uh collaboration.

And then it is nurturing, innovation and um oh gosh, what is the last one? We just did this the collective. So those are our three and so are our six rather. And I think that what our team really loved about it is it was simple. The picnic is going to be something that will all be able to remember, but it’s hot off the press. So you got me a little bit on the edge of that. No, I appreciate you showing it. Have you, what would you say in your business? What’s your biggest challenges been? Oh my gosh, so many. So, so, so many. And one of those things is that when we started this business, we didn’t really understand how much different this business was from an interior design where I was before and I have a finance degree and then we came into this thinking we want to help other people grow their businesses well, we had to learn a whole new language and that was online marketing And so through the years I think probably our biggest challenge over the years is learning how to build leads and really build the kind of presence that we need to have so that we have those that steady lead flow.

But once we get people into our clutches is one way to look at it that once we get them into our collective and they become a part of our community, they stay with us 5-7 years. So we know that what we do is very helpful and um but the problem being is just that lead flow at the beginning and just getting people to reach out and get help when they’re ready and how did you go about solving that problem. Same thing. I sat down and I closed myself off and I got my word document out and I started diving into the problem and then I spent even these last six months I have read probably over 100 books and in those 100 books a lot of those were based on marketing and legion and all the things we needed to do And from that I determined what we need to do strategically and what projects we need to pick up in our marketing to make that happen.

And then I made a very very big shift in our company just two weeks ago and took my co founder and told her you are 100% marketing from now on. And I took her out of the role of operating the day to day of the company. So we distributed that with our leadership team. So that was a very big decision that we made because we saw that there was a problem and I was I knew that I had to spend some time doing some research to solve it. Well there’s a theme in terms of developing yourself. So I can 100% see how you’re your business is growing because you’re growing as a person. But in terms of that, the 100 books that you read on online marketing, if you were to summarize some of the most should we say profound lessons that you learn, what would they be? Wow, That is a great question. And I actually read about 12 topics, so I’ll pick a couple that I think were very, very impactful for me. The first one is that you need to have in the online world, you need to focus on content marketing and content marketing is something that isn’t necessarily sexy.

You have to write a lot or you have a team that’s writing. But I think you also need to be looking at delivering it in a way that people want to see it today and today video is a big part of it. So those are a couple of things that I picked up from what I was reading and we are in the process of implementing exactly what I’m talking about. So we’re putting our plan together and we’re also getting ready to launch our new brand and our new company name and that will be coming out in October So we are vast working on that and the website and all of the web domains that we need to set up to be able to promote that new new brand. Well, thank you for that. Um I recognize that content marketing is a an important part. I I kind of do my podcasting for the enjoyment more than anything. Have you in terms of, let’s say lead gen in terms of where you get your best results, do you anything come to mind there or? Absolutely, Well, I think most of us get our business from referrals and that’s number one, but speaking for me is a huge way for me to get business.

So being out in the community and speaking at various events around the country is extremely important for me to build leads. So is that plus we know that just keeping our clients happy and making sure that we’re delivering top quality information to them requires that we continue to learn and grow. So to me it’s uh if we are growing and learning and teaching more to our clients, they’re going to stay, they’re going to share that with other people and the referrals will grow from that. And then we also get quite a few referrals from our our colleagues in the industry because they see what we’re doing. So we have started also building our partnership strategy. So we have a lot of things that we’re working on. It’s not a, not a, not a quiet little company. We work fast and we work hard and we’re looking at the strategies that will take us into the future. And so for us, if we’re looking at the things that work, we’re looking at the analytics and we’re saying, okay speaking works, we get a lot of people as a result of that.

Um, we also do what are called challenges. They might be three or five days and those are about an hour a day for that period and we’ll teach a very intense topic and from that we get a lot of good clients. So we look at the things that work for us and we keep doing more of that and we cut back on the things that aren’t working so well. But like everyone else, we’re doing social media, we’re doing podcasting. We’re doing a lot of other things and I just think that we all as owners of businesses need to do ourselves a favor and analyze where we’re spending our money and time and just determine if it’s really the right investment that we’re making for our company. You’re a very busy woman then very busy businesswoman, um, and also you’re touching your answer, which is one of my quotes and something that you’ve mentioned today, which is measurement improves performance if you get a particular media which is doing well for you. You know, you can focus on their you referenced speaking, What’s it like to be a speaker?

Well, that’s interesting too. That was one of those things that I have was trained growing up to be able to be a speaker and when I had to start doing it at the beginning of this business about 14.5 years ago. I was uncomfortable because I was out of practice. So over time you just realize that if you’re a subject matter expert, which we have to be and doing what we’re doing, then you don’t really have anything to be nervous about, you’re there to share and you’re there to help people grow and speaking is really a fun thing to do once you get over that first fear. So I do it all the time and obviously lots of podcast interviews, but I really believe that speaking is one of the best ways of building your expertise and your credibility in the, in the marketplace. Yeah. When you try and make things clear for someone else, it means that you need to kind of increase your knowledge on a particular area and it makes you better as a, as a person.

I found that from, from writing anyway, but I did want to ask you about your, I asked about the biggest challenges, but I haven’t asked about your biggest wins. So anything, anything come to mind, Well I think my biggest win is figuring out how to hire the right people. I think that one is a big one and I I also believe that my biggest wins are the growth that I’ve made and it is so hard to explain. But if you take the time to learn and to grow and take classes, get coaches, work with people that can help you Find people who are colleagues that have ideas that are ahead of yours and read and read and read read voraciously because when you think about it, someone that brings a wonderful book to the marketplace probably has a good 15 years of experience that they’re pouring into that book. If you read five books on that subject, that’s 75 years of knowledge and today things are moving so rapidly that you have to continue to learn because the learning gets out of date.

So if you can focus on that you’re going to be very successful. And to me that’s really one of the keys that I’d like to share today is breeding. Oh my gosh, the things that I’ve learned are incredible. Well, there’s another selfish question from, from my perspective because it was a something that I was doing, I was kind of self development and immersing myself in all the various different we say lessons and subjects, but I’ve kind of tailed off a bit. So what advice would you give me about getting the bug back of, of self improvement? Well what is your topic that you would most like to fix? That’s an interesting question because I mean I could have, I could ask you in a roundabout way, a different way, which is, I don’t necessarily have a long term goal. So that might be, that might be one which I would be able to answer the prior question if I had that fixed. So any thoughts about that, that particular problem? Well, that’s interesting.

Well you were talking about hiring. So if you were, if that is a high priority for you right now then maybe reading about culture would be a great thing for you to work on. And there are some excellent books like tribal tribal culture. I thought that one was fabulous. I read that one in the spring and I would highly recommend that there are several really great books to. There’s one great book by Patrick Francioni. This would be a great one to start with because it’s a parable And is five dysfunctions of a team. So if you will look at Patrick Lindsay jones books, those are really great ones. If you’re working on team. So since that was the beginning part of our conversation, I think that might be useful for you? Well you did mention that one of the your biggest wins was actually being able to hire the right people. Does that mean that you previously haven’t been able to, I would tell you that my last company, I was terrible. I had some good employees, but I had some that were not so good. So it’s like having non ideal clients, but I didn’t have the clarity that I do now, which is I know what I’m looking for and I know what the culture is.

I know what I want our employees to fit And if I ask the right questions, I will hire the right people, 99% of the time now. And what I’ve found is we have a very unusual company. We are 100% virtual. We have been for 13.5 years and so everyone works remotely around the country for our company and we still have a feeling of camaraderie and just a really great culture and it’s because we communicate frequently. So I think it’s really important to have the idea in your head that in a belief that you can have a great culture no matter how your company operates. So to me is really about making a decision about hiring the right people by asking the right questions, but also because I have a very different view of the world on hiring. I will, I have a combination of contractors and full time employees. We have two people on our leadership team that are part time contractors, They’re that important to our company, One has been with us for 11 years, the other one has been with us for eight years.

So, and my co founder, she has worked with me for 17 years. So to me it’s really about making sure I’m the right kind of leader and I set that vision out for people and I get them excited about it and I give them an exciting workplace to work in and let them see where they can grow. Because if they can grow with the company, the company grows and if I grow, they grow, the company grows. So we are the basis of everything that happens in our company and we get to choose the people that we surround ourselves with. And I believe that you can hire incredible people, but you just have to be open to the possibilities and I’ll share just a little insight that I came up with a while back and I don’t know why this happens this way about. All I have to do is decide I want to hire somebody. I’ll put a job description together and that person appears they just appear, I don’t know why it just happens.

And I have had such luck with hiring as a result of that. I mean for me, what I took from that was it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the right person, but it’s the right person for you and what that means is that you have to know exactly who you’re looking for and it comes back to what we’ve discussed today. So I appreciate the share and I think that’s a valuable piece of information for people. I did ask you that prior to our recording, I was going to ask you about what success means to you. Well, success to me is achievement and contribution. Those are the two most important things to me. And I am such a big achiever. I want to do things. I like to build things, its internal focus and its internal reward for the things that I do. So I see the results of my work and that to me is success and if I can help my clients achieve massive results, that makes me very happy. I was talking to a client, a couple of clients in the last week because we’ve been doing some reviews, made your reviews And I was talking to one in particular and I said Wow, look at this.

You are now earning $550,000 net profit a year. That’s your owner’s compensation. And it was more than three times what he had when he started with us a few years ago. And I said what do you think about that? He said, I can’t even believe it. And I said, well here’s the good news by a couple of years from now, you’ll be at $1 million dollars net profit. Another person that I talked to, That’s a good friend of his um she actually has already hit $1 million dollars net profit, but she was not there when she came to us. So as we start working with people and we figure out what that those few levers are that we need to switch and they start seeing that the results are going to come as a result of doing that, then they’re all in. And that’s the thing that I found is that if people want to be successful, go get some coaching and help from somebody who knows that path and can help you get where you need to go.

So that to me is the key to success. But the other key is to remember that if you’re looking for some sort of external recognition that is you can’t fill that cup enough. But if it is internally motivated, you’re going to feel really good about it and nobody else needs to know about it and you don’t need external recognition. If you could get to that point, that’s when you’ll be happiest in your life in your business. Well, thank you for sharing that. Based on the criteria you set out, would you say that you’re a successful individual? I would, I think I’m happier now than I’ve ever been. People ask me, how long are you going to work? And I feel strongly I am not a um young person anymore, but I have no desire to quit working because I am constantly motivated by learning and by helping other people grow. So to me, that’s what life’s all about. Well they say, I don’t know whether it’s a clichĂ© at this point or not, but if you’re, if you’re doing something you love then it’s not really working, right?

It’s not, I get up every day and I’m excited to do the work that I do. It’s fun. It’s challenging. It’s never the same any day. Is there anything that I should have asked you about today? I think you’ve asked some excellent questions today and I just hope for the listeners that they took one or two little nuggets and like you said, sometimes bringing that beginner mind, even though we think we’ve heard it before, if we’re not actually doing that, then we don’t really own that. So we have to remember that it’s not like we really are doing that task or that thing that we heard. If we aren’t doing that, we need to apply it and try it, because if we do that, we might get some really big results. So just take one idea and maybe if you haven’t been doing it or you dropped it somewhere along the way, go back, pick it up, try it again and try it with a different viewpoint, because you might be surprised what it will do for your business.

Well, if someone wants to connect with you or perhaps need some business consulting, where do they go? The easiest thing is to go to my website, which is www.gaildoby.com. G A I L D O B Y. Well for everyone listening or watching, please review the links in the description and Gail, thank you for being a great guest today. My pleasure. Thank you.