#259 – Carrying Trauma With Greg Wieting

Thomas Green here with Ethical Marketing Service. On the episode today, we have Greg Wieting. Greg, welcome. Hey, Thomas. Nice to be here, thank you. It is nice to have you. Would you like to take a moment and tell the audience a bit about yourself and what you do? Sure, absolutely. I help leaders and entrepreneurs address the unresolved trauma that’s lending itself to anxiety, depression, burnout, overwhelm, emptiness. Really helping people mind the goal of unresolved trauma so they could find more significance and meaning.

A lot of folks I work with are made of purpose. They’re just lacking fulfillment and so helping them put the fulfillment back in their purpose. Thank you for the introduction for the sake of clarity. When you say trauma, what’s your definition there? Sure, Yeah, I mean, I think trauma is any lived experience where we feel isolated, alone and unsupported, right? So a lot of folks I work with haven’t necessarily, come back from a war zone, they haven’t been on the receiving end of abuse. A lot of it’s early developmental neglect, right? The lack of consistent reliable care, which in early development signals kind of a sense of life or death threat, right? If we’re not getting our early developmental needs met consistently, reliably, that doesn’t sit so well with our body, our brain, our nervous system, right?

So we start to have these mal adaptations to that stress where we need to hide or perform parts of ourselves to get our needs met and the perception is our life is on the line and in some cases it may be. So, yeah, that sense a lot of the folks network with at an early age have learned that they need to kind of be the adult in the room, you know, right? If they’re not getting their needs met, then they need to meet their needs and they probably need to take care and meet everyone else’s needs. So a lot of times that kind of is showing itself is kind of this pedal to the metal mindset and hustling for one’s worth and putting everyone else’s needs in front of your own. So taking care of everything, right? Not being able to delegate, not being able to rely on others and lean on others and trust others. So kind of this hyper vigilance and this hyper independence, which is, you know, a fast track to burnout. So would you say a lot of the people that you do help, it is more about the childhood neglect that you are referring to rather than some form of PTSD for example?

No, no. I work with plenty of PTSD I partner with a psychiatrist to sentence his PTSD and complex trauma patients to me when he realizes that, you know, if they address the PTSD, they probably won’t need to be so dependent on the medications I’m providing them. So it’s the full gamut, but in terms of a lot of the high performing leaders that come in my door, a lot of it, you know, are the folks that don’t necessarily identify with trauma because, you know, I think the lack of emotional attunement and early developments more insidious, right? Nothing bad happened to me. Well, kind of it’s like, yeah, maybe right, good things didn’t happen, which has an adverse effect. So that population doesn’t necessarily identify with having trauma um that’s kind of something that’s discovered along the way. But no, most certainly I worked with lots of survivors of sexual assault and abuse, um that’s a big piece, I’ve worked with plenty of veterans over the years and so PTSD is a big, big part.

I’ve heard it said that during childhood if you’re not getting your developmental needs met as as you said that your the brain can’t really handle it at that age. So it sort of blocks, blocks it out for a while and sort of keeps you going until later on in life where you then have to deal with those unresolved issues. Do you think that’s the case? Yeah, I agree. You know, I look at trauma is too much too soon. So in early development, the if we are able to fully have the cognition that we’re not getting our needs met and if they are not met, that puts us in danger that’s like far too overwhelming for, you know, an undeveloped, fully undeveloped brain to to acknowledge right. And so yeah, we we instead, on a subconscious level knows something’s not right, but we turn the arrow at ourselves and then the narrative becomes, well something’s not right here, It must be my fault, I’m bad or I’m wrong, right, and that has a way of catching up with us in terms of patterns of shame, right?

Um and people pleasing and you know just being completely on guard to make everything okay by being perfect, being the caretaker, you know being special. Um and so healing is really slowing down so we can become present to that the parts of lived experience that we have historically rushed over, which is really counterintuitive in our culture because we’re all on the go, we’re all a few steps ahead. So you know, learning how to slow down how to pause, how to develop presence and build a robust relationship with ourselves. You know, I think healing is our capacity to be with ourselves and derive a sense of OK Nous and that’s where a lot of re parenting occurs, you know, this robust relationship from self to self. So I’ve I’ve heard in previous conversations that you’ve said that you are a healer, the definition there would be helping people to slow down to, I don’t know if you phrase it like this, but perhaps live in the moment more is that accurate?

Yeah. And you know, I think some folks don’t necessarily, you know people might not pick up the phone and rush to speak to me when I say this, but my job is to really help people feel the pain. They’ve historically not been able to feel, right. And how do we help their bodies start to process and metabolize the residue of trauma that’s stored in the tissues and the cells. Right? So healing is broadening the window of tolerance so we can become present to the the adverse experiences that you know, we may be froze around. You know that the idea of a bird that flies into a window and drops to the ground. In some cases the bird does die, but in many cases the bird is just in shock, right? And it takes a while, but eventually the bird starts to twitch and shake off the shock. It can start to make sense of the tremendous impact of flying into the window. You know, that’s trauma and once it can make sense of that impact, it gets its senses back about itself and it can fly off, right?

So we don’t shake off, you know, the imprints of trauma. So well we continue to carry them and so then parts of us, parts of our identity um become kind of frozen. So healing is helping to thaw that out and the more we have that capacity to thaw out those frozen parts. We are broadening our window of tolerance. So we have a greater capacity to stay in an optimal zone of arousal where we’re less likely to flip our lid and lose access to our upper brain of logic and reason, right? But when the nervous system gets flooded, we’re gonna lose that access to logic and reason and default to more of the survival brain. And I think that’s as humans that happens and healing that affords us a greater recovery time and healing helps us gather data points each time we flip our lid and default to the reptilian brain. So we can better understand kind of the dynamics that are at play.

And that understanding is where we gather more awareness which lends itself to more healing. That’s how we get to know the parts of ourselves that are wounded and hurt that are scared, isolated alone. Alienated and that want tending to that wants support, that want love, that want connection. So in your view, do you think that how how many people do you think? Maybe as a percentage? No, that’s something that they’re carrying trauma around. It’s a good question. I’m not sure I can answer it. Um I was reading an article somewhere recently saying that over 70% of the population is suffering from trauma. I’d argue that to be human, we all have some level of trauma. And even if we haven’t had like big traumatic events, you know, we live in a world that is feeding off of fear and division. Right? And I think just the way we are set up as humans to develop, you know, through our five senses, we start to develop a individual sense of self that is separate from the other.

Um which is going to set up all sorts of dynamics around how we perceive ourselves in relationship to other, right? Um and that can set up a dynamic of just feeling separate, feeling alone, feeling isolated. And then if we’re harboring any challenging lived experiences from that place and we haven’t developed a capacity to, you know, be in relationship through our hardships that’s gonna start to compound and and and imprint as trauma, right? And I look at, you know, the conscious mind is just the tip of the iceberg, it’s what we think we believe and the subconscious and unconscious mind is the underbelly of the iceberg, which is what we truly believe and that’s stored in the body, right? And trauma, the imprints of trauma gets stored in the body and that’s what will create all sorts of stagnation of emotion which compromises the immune function that leads to increased inflammation, that’s gonna, you know, fog the brain and create all sorts of hormonal imbalance and then all sorts of behaviors and beliefs start to get organized around feeling isolated, feeling alone, feeling on guard, you know, feeling unsafe.

So healings helping to kind of break up that residue, you know, that we’re carrying. So we can start to live in more of a relation, all capacity where we feel that it is okay to be in relationship not only with ourselves but with others. Thank you for that. Coming back to your analogy just for a second and instead of it being a bird, let’s say it’s a human being and they smash into some glass or something. Probably more common than that. What would a healthy response look like instead of maybe carrying that trauma around? How how would that look to to a healthy, healthy person? I mean literally the twitching that the bird does, we can emanate, you know, we can literally shake off our stress response right, shaking. Sometimes have clients shake and literally start to release the stress that has accumulated in the body.

Um Right, we were carrying so much stress and most of us are living kind of from our neck up, right? Because that freeze response, we’ve we’ve kind of landed in a place where we no longer feel safe in our body, right? So the shaking can help to release, you know, the the lack of safety, the stored fear that is in the body. Another analogy, if you will is just the image of a gazelle being chased by a cheetah, but the gazelle, the moment it realizes it’s no longer in danger, literally does a ritual shaking and then instantaneously goes back to eating grass from a very relaxed parasympathetic, you know, rest and digest mode, you know, where if we have a near death life experience or even just, you know, an email that triggers us, you know, or a bill that comes in the mail. Whatever our unique stressors are that actually are not life or death. Well we’re gonna keep replaying them in our minds, right?

And we may text or call a friend about it, we may post on social media about it. We may be in the safety and comfort of our own home and just keep replaying it like a three ring circus in our brain. So you know, the, I think a mindfulness piece which is an important component of healing is reorienting the mind from pain, from danger from negativity to possibility. You know, negativity bias. The brain is always going to orient more towards what’s wrong, what’s dangerous than what’s good and positive. So it’s literally training the brain to actually focus on what’s possible. Um and that’s that’s like training a muscle, right? It takes work, it takes practice. But that mind training is so critical because the mind is always gonna default. Um and so um that’s work. They’d shake it off with a bit of taylor swift and then do some mindfulness and that would be a healthy response to something.

Something detrimental, like a triggering email. Yeah. You know, because the triggering email is like, it’s the end of the world, you know, and all the what ifs the catastrophizing, you know, making the worst case scenario out of it. It’s the mind training is well, what’s the best case scenario here, what’s actually possible. If it all goes right, what’s possible then, you know, we need a baseline of safety. So, right, the shaking is just one, you know, I talked about a lot of grounding and modulation practices. So when the nervous system gets flooded and we lose access to the upper brain, how do we recover and come back to the upper brain instead of staying in this default of survival? So shaking is just one, you know, orienting in space. You know, hugging someone being in nature exercise, you know, especially aerobic exercise. Uh, once we have come back to the upper brain, you know, then we have more capacity. We’ve relocated a sense of safety.

You know, neural plasticity is dependent upon safety, neural plasticity being, you know, our ability, you know, our imagination literally creates the structure of our brain for better or for worse, because if we’ve lost access to our upper brain, our imagination from our survival brain is going to imagine all sorts of horrible outcomes when we’ve recovered and come back to our upper brain, our imagination can, you know, create all sorts of positive outcomes. And so not only then are we creating the structure of our brains that’s helping us create the structure of our lives, not that we’re in control of what happens in the environment, but we do have choice in how we respond and that choice, a lot of that choice, you know, starts up here and then we can take that into outer action. I wanted to ask about the what would be a healthy response because I was going to ask about the unhealthy response? But you’ve actually already alluded to one of them, which is replaying the example in your mind over and over again for for days.

Is there any additional ones that people do that you’ve noticed in working with other people? Well, I mean when we’re in the survival brain, you know, we are going to be defaulting to, you know, the sympathetic nervous system, which is, you know, the fight response for the the fight or flight response or we’re going to. So that’s hyper arousal. Hyper arousal is gonna be the freeze or appease response or the fawn response. And, you know, these responses are sacred guardians, they’re trying to protect us. Um, and yet and an early development and in some parts, in some circumstances in our lives, they may very well have saved our lives, right? Or helped us navigate some pretty adverse, challenging experiences. We reach a point where we’re defaulting to these responses and there may be more of a cost than a payoff. Right? So then it’s understanding that we don’t want to fight against these responses.

We want to understand them and maybe realize that they’re not quite as necessary today as they once were. So we can start to live in greater presence. You know, one of my clients thinks she heard it from a therapist at first said that, which is hysterical is often historical. Right? So um are we actually responding to what is or are we responding from some historic imprint of energy that’s still kind of running the show? So healing is really bringing discernment to that and as we bring awareness and discernment to that and as we start to grow in our capacity to regulate the nervous system and find a new baseline of safety and stability, then we’re going to have more agency in our capacity to you know, choose a different, choose a different route, you know, a new a new behavioral response can start to come online and become available. Thank you for that.

It’s a good point. He did mention previously the people pleaser which sometimes I am quite guilty of what do I do as a start to progress towards maybe not doing that anymore. So, you know, these grounding and modulation practices I spoke about are helping us just recover to the upper brain which is helpful and necessary. But I look at that as kind of just working on the symptomatic level, right? Just helping us recover. Where I look at deeper healing is kind of looking under the hood and kind of taking a deeper understanding at what’s at play with that fond response, so to speak. So a lot of the work I do with students and clients is looking at and mapping the unmet needs from early development, right? Oh, I did not have safety or you know, I didn’t have reliable support. What was the emotional impact of that? Oh, that made me feel terrified for my life. That made me feel that at age five I had to be in charge uh that made, you know, I had a parent that, you know, was unloading all of their, you know, emotional wounding on me.

So I early development realized I had to take care of them and it was very unsafe to be the kids. So I had to be the adult and take care of them. So it’s slowing down again and just bringing awareness to how that dynamic is living inside of us. How do we then re parent that part? Um, you know, healing, there’s, there’s leaps where we are going to take risks because right now the fawning response, it’s like, well, is there still a payoff to it? Is there a cost? So we reach a point where I’m kind of coaching clients to explore and do that cost payoff analysis and eventually, I think the cost starts to become pretty painful. And that kind of gives us a little impetus to maybe take a risk to have a different pay off, you know, but to not people, please might feel very threatening, right? So that could be a big risk because it’s still signaling to the, you know, younger version of self, you know, and the lower brain that everything can fall apart, right?

If I don’t take care and make sure everything and everyone is okay. But as we’re broadening the window of tolerance, we develop enough capacity that we’re willing to take that risk and then realized that, oh actually I didn’t take care of that person. And it was okay. And that starts to that lend itself to repair experience where it’s signaling to the brain and the body and the nervous system that maybe I don’t need to do that anymore, right? And once you get a taste of it, you know, I think healing is two steps forward, one step back, right? It’s not a one and done. It’s not a direct path there, there’s no silver bullets healing. But as we get a taste of that, it signals to our system that that’s possible. And so we’re maybe that much more willing to take a risk again and again. And the more we start to settle in the repair experience that taking those risks have actually been paying off and haven’t been costing us too much. Um you know, we that becomes more of a baseline, right?

And even when there is a consequence, we have developed a greater capacity to sit in the discomfort of that, you know, consequence and thinking of a client who, you know, they are very much a yes person and they run a company, right? And that can become pretty problematic when they’re saying yes to everybody because the thought of people being angry with them is just very destabilizing. But through the course of our work together, they’re getting more comfortable with people being piste off and realizing that that’s not theirs to manage, it’s not their job to make everyone happy and and they’re realizing that someone could be disappointed or upset, not get their way, but actually still be a part of the team and still show up and actually have no ill feelings towards them and it’s actually okay, right. And that’s just part of the messiness of just being human, but we broaden our capacity to be in the messiness and to know that part of being human is making mistakes, right?

But not defaulting to, I made a mistake and that means I’m bad and horrible, I made a mistake and that’s something I can learn and grow from. So then we’re starting to register that actually failure is a part of our growth as opposed to a big, you know, staying on, you know, our humanity, thank you for that in your answer a couple of times you’ve mentioned re parenting for those that don’t necessarily, or they’re not aware of the term or much about it. Would you mind sharing what that means to you? Sure? You know, I can share from my own healing journey, you know, I am three inches taller today than I was 25 years ago, I used to suffer from just horrific chronic pain, anxiety and depression, um, the type of pain that just robbed me of all hope, um and it felt like I was fighting a monster inside of myself, this pain, right?

I was just completely at odds with this pain. Fighting against it, you know, in my healing journey, helped me realize and discover that the pain I was fighting against was just a wounded part of myself, right? So instead of fighting against this wounded part of myself, you know, healing is actually opening up a dialogue, a thoughtful, caring dialogue that this wounded part of myself actually needed an early development and didn’t necessarily get, but now, as an adult, it’s no one’s job to parent that part of me, but my own, um and so, developing that capacity to, you know, be in a compassionate, curious relationship with our hurt. You know, our culture doesn’t create much space to be with pain um, right, especially, you know, in the professional world, everyone’s putting on a smiley face and, you know, we have a job to do, and let’s go, let’s go, let’s go.

Um and sure there may be a time and a place to be with our pain, um, but we need to carve that out for ourselves, right? And again, oftentimes to be with our pain is too much, so we then lose access to our upper brain. So, you know, the more we regain access to logic and reason, the more we can be in a loving conversation with a part of our system that doesn’t feel safe, that feels isolated alone, that feels at odds that feels alienated, that feels other um and you know, then that part that’s frozen, starts to thaw out that part that is separate, starts to integrate into the hole and then instead of feeling fragmented and split within ourselves, we start to feel more integrated. Um that’s a journey, it’s a lifelong journey, it’s there’s, we need to question the status of arriving, right? I think um we gather tools and awareness that we get more awareness and we continue to lean into that awareness throughout our lives.

Well you mentioned the before, so that was when you were suffering, I would refer to it as suffering. What’s your, what would you say your quality of life is like now? Yeah, um well aside from 3″ taller, no chronic pain, no anxiety, no depression, still human, right? So I can still lose access to my upper brain, I can still get triggered like anyone and yet I have a robust set of tools that I can depend on and to regain, you know, capacity to come back to my upper brain. What used to be just a huge cloud of anxiety and depression, you know, healing has helped me kind of locate, oh, that’s some fear that’s tied into these parts of my early development, that’s some shame, that’s tied into these experiences, right? That’s some fear that’s tied in, you know, so I’m able to actually, you know, take it all apart. So instead of it just being this huge storm, I can see it as these isolated weather patterns and so much of healing is starting to create a cohesive narrative.

So we can understand kind of the through line of these lived experiences and start to understand their influence on us and that understanding that helps us be less of the effect of those weather patterns, right? Um and be able to work with them better, be able to better and as we understand them, we better understand ourselves. Um and then we don’t have to pathologize, you know, our pain and I look at so much of our anxiety and or depression, which I think there’s so much stigma around mental health, but what if our anxiety and depression is actually a healthy response to an unhealthy environment? Um and what if that’s our body’s wisdom, telling us that something needs tending to and what if that is just coming from a very evolved and intelligent part of ourselves, Right? And once we can register that, then we can find a whole lot more dignity and pride um as we navigate, kind of just the pain of being human, would you say you’re happy?

Absolutely. And I also I I say that I have access to happiness and I have access to grief and I have access to fear and anger, I don’t think there’s any good or bad emotions, I’d say I have learned how to have access to the full range of human emotion without identifying or clinging to anyone experience. So, my goal isn’t happiness, my goal is presence. And when I’m present, I can access the happiness that is available. I can access the sorrow that is available. So I’m no longer repressing um emotion that is, you know, very real in the human experience. You know? So much of us don’t have access to that full range. So then we have an accumulation of unprocessed emotion, right? And so as we heal, we have capacity to let emotion flow through us as opposed to getting stuck. So then if there’s a loss, I am able to grieve that loss, you know, I’m working with a client right now, that to grieve, loss feels too threatening.

So they don’t have access to actually grieve, right? So To find um you know, our capacity to be present, you know? So my happiness isn’t, you know, a 24/7 experience, I’d say my happiness is knowing that I have capacity to the full range of my human experience. And I’m not tethered or organized to any and I don’t have attached or aversion to any. It’s like what’s here is here, there’s some shame that I get to look at right now? Alright, let me look at that. What’s the message inside of that? How does that want to inform me what what what what action do I need to take around that? Right? So our emotions become very informative. There’s a lot of intelligence and information inside of our emotions that often guide us to what needs to be communicated, what needs to be acted upon. You know, what boundaries may need to be set, What goals may need to be set. Um so they become part of our Gps very important.

And, you know, trauma that freeze response um suppresses our access to our emotions. You know, that bird that is frozen has left its body, it’s left its bodily experience, so it’s left its capacity to feel itself. And so when we lose our body, we lose that internal sense of touch into receptions, we lose our ability to feel ourselves and in doing so we lose presence and agency. So, you know, healing affords us a lot of agency to feel the full range of our humanity. So my summary of that is that your your emotions don’t pull you around, you’re in control of your emotions. Is that fair? I don’t like to use the word control. Um because but I do have tools so, you know, I can witness emotion. So if I’m in an emotional storm, which again sometimes work, that’s part of being human, but I can become the witness of that emotional storm and so I can still be present to say, you know, um a client or a friend.

Right? So the emotional weather doesn’t have to fully dictate my moment to moment experience. So um but I don’t like the idea of control because I think can imply more suppression. Um I feel more skillful um in how I relate to my emotions. So if someone’s watching this now, what’s a couple of things, if they’re interested in having being able to weather the storm, what should they do? So there’s no one, I think there’s as many approaches to healing as there are humans. And I am very much an advocate for a trauma informed approach to healing, which means that each of us gets to inform our own healing journey. And so I think there’s different breadcrumbs that lead each of us to our healing path. You know, for me it was time and nature and music and body movement and mindfulness that kind of then led me to energy medicine.

Um you know, for other people it may be you know therapy and you know, there’s just so many different approaches but how I work, you know, the tools I’ve developed kind of are working with the trauma and neuroscience roadmap that kind of give us kind of uh get to help us get our bearings straight right and um somatic and mindfulness based practices which help us really get in touch with our body because there’s some pain and wounding that we can’t think or talk our way through. You know, we need to actually um feel our way through it. Um And that’s also tied into the mind training to then shift our identification with pain. Um shift our relationship to pain and possibility. And then for me, energy medicine has been a huge component of my healing. It’s a huge component of what I teach and what I share and practice with my clients, you know? And the energy medicine is really the vehicle for healing that’s helping to neutralize and breakthrough and dissolve the imprints of trauma and the residue of trauma stored in the physical body.

And that’s gonna help to come the cardiovascular system, regulate the nervous system, you know, boost the immune system, which I think those three pieces alone are really key factors to helping activate our natural ability to heal. Um and that’s the essence of my work as much as I help people with trauma, I don’t really focus on trauma, I focus on helping people get aligned to their innate wisdom. And innate wisdom is a term that was developed in chiropractic decades ago. You know, if we get a paper cut, there’s a healing intelligence or healing mechanism that sends platelets and proteins and orchestrates all these biochemical transmissions to heal the paper cut. And that innate wisdom is healing the paper cut while we’re having this conversation while we’re sleeping. You know, it’s healing without us having to think about it. And so I think the the greatest access to healing helps us bypass the brain because there’s a lot of stuff, we just can’t think or talk our way through and just aligns us with our innate wisdom.

You know, it helps to break up whatever stress and trauma has distorted or blocked our connection to our innate capacity to heal. And once we reconnect to that innate wisdom, our faculty, our capacity to heal comes back online. I don’t think I’ve ever heard the term energy medicine before. Can you tell me what that is? Sure. Yeah. So there’s many different forms of energy medicine. Ricky is one of them. Body talk is another form of energy medicine that I’ll use another metaphor if the body is a symphony orchestra. You know, when we’re experiencing health, every part of the body, mind and spirit is is creating sweet music. So that means every emotion, every thought, every tissue, every cell, every memory, every organ, every hormone, every neurotransmitter is in constant communication. And that innate wisdom is like the conductor of the symphony orchestra.

And it is helping all of those different parts create this music. And they’re all in tune. They’re all listening to one another and they’re all playing in relationship to one another. But then stress and trauma, environmental toxins, hereditary influences. Um you know, short circuit the nervous system, right? And so all of a sudden the communication between all these parts starts to break up. So let’s say the heart and the liver, we’re communicating, they start to turn their back on each other, they’re still playing their own instrument, right? But they’re not playing in tune anymore, they’ve kind of forgotten that they’re a team. So energy medicine is, you know, so then instead of music, we’re creating a whole lot of noise. Energy medicine just helps to break up the noise. Energy medicine helps to restore the relationship between all the different parts. So they come back into a harmonic resonance and that harmonic resonance is wholeness, right? So much of healing is just remembering our wholeness before the distortions of trauma and stress, you know, got us short circuited and, you know, fragmented us into different parts.

Okay, thank you for, for, for your answer. And I think there’s a lot of good stuff in our conversation today. Is there anything I should have asked you about? Um no, I appreciate just the flow of our conversation. You know, I look, I look at a lot of, I guess what I’d add, you know, a lot of folks have come to me because they’ve been kind of treating their anxiety or their depression or their mental health um through medication, which sometimes I think pain and symptom management is necessary. So I’m not knocking it, but a lot of folks have kind of come to the belief that a chemical imbalance is really what’s causing, you know, their depression, right? And that just hasn’t been proven that has that research has not proven that. Um and I look at chemical imbalances really, again, the tip of the iceberg and we want to look at the causative factors beneath that and many times over, I’ve seen if we actually address the trauma beneath the chemical imbalance, not only does the chemical imbalance start to re pattern and heal, but so does the, you know, manifestation of depression and anxiety and pain.

So I I just like to let folks know that there’s just so much hope that the body is highly resilient and highly capable of healing. Um We just need the right tools, We need the right resources and we need the right support. And so whatever those breadcrumbs are for each individual, that to continue to follow that path to find the right support, because we can be finding incredible support. It just might not be the right support for us. So if you find a therapist or healer that doesn’t resonate, that doesn’t mean healing or therapy isn’t good. It just means that’s just not the right fit for you. So don’t give up. You know, you need to be an advocate for your own healing, for your own mental health and don’t give up. Because no one else is gonna do it for you, right? Yeah, it’s our job. Yeah, we’re here to care for ourselves. Well, if people want to follow you or connect with you, where do they go? Yeah. gregwieting.com is where folks can learn more about me and my private practice, I do work with select amount of clients one on one at prismamethod.com is where you can learn more about my online course community and that’s where you would learn the trauma and neuroscience roadmap, the somatic and mindfulness based practices and the energy medicine. Well, thank you for that and I appreciate you the value you’ve added today. For everyone listening. Please review the links in the description and Greg, thanks for being a great guest today. Thanks for having me, Thomas.