#268 – You Never Know Where Your Relationships Will Lead – With Dr. Barrett Matthews

Thomas Green here with Ethical Marketing Service, on the episode today we have Dr. Barrett Matthews. Dr. Matthews welcome. Thank you appreciate it, Thomas, I’m glad to be here. I am happy to have you. Would you like to take a moment and tell the audience a bit about yourself and what you do? Well, how much time do we have? Um yeah, I’m Doctor Barrett Matthews, I am a media optimization professional. And what I do is I work with people, speakers, coaches authors to help them gain more visibility and to drive their competitors crazy by using media. And I’ve got a background in media. So what I do is I show people how to use media to reach those people that probably wouldn’t know them but actually want to pay them if they actually knew who they were okay.

And for clarity, how would you define media, media meaning, books, podcast, live streaming in any type of, any type of vehicle that you can use to reach the masses, such as, you know, live streaming, uh streaming television, film, radio, all types of different things, newspapers, blogs, all those are all forms of media, social media. Thank you for that in terms of sort of, where your story begins, it’s excluding the hospital, where where would you say? Where would you start there? Well I I grew up in a small community in Maryland and I went to, I’ve always felt that I was meant to do something different. You probably understand what I mean. And when I got into high school I thought I wanted to be an architect. That’s what I thought. I went to college for architecture and it kicked my butt up and down the hallways and then I realized that I wasn’t going to be an architect and I wasn’t really sure what I was going to change my major to and my sister said well you’ve always been interested in television and radio and to be honest my thought was isn’t everybody, I just I just thought everybody like radio like people but I never thought of it as a major or as a career and I changed my major, my grades shot up and I enjoyed it.

I was having fun. It was it was so simple to me, especially compared to architecture and I did some internships with local tv stations and I got got on on the radio and college got on tv in college hosted some some sports shows called the game, the football and basketball games for for our team. And we even had a newscast. I was a sports person for the news, I was heavily into sports and even wrote for the newspaper as well because I was just enjoying it and then I got an opportunity to intern at a Tv station in Washington D. C. And while I was there of the sports intern, one of the sportscasters who was just at that time he was just a weekend sportscaster maybe filled in during the week. He liked me and kind of took me under his wing and that person happened to be James Brown of CBS sports and he just took a liking to me and so and when I got out of college he referred me to get a job at the Tv station there and I got a job there as an assistant director and then he actually asked me would I be interested in moving up to new york and working with CBS sports, the network which was actually a dream of mine.

So I did that like two years out of college and you know I got a chance to work with some of the best in the business and it was really a fun fun time for me. I learned a lot some of it was hard times, some of it was not things I’m very happy about but it helped me to learn a lot and it also helped me to realise I don’t like corporate America from that standpoint because I saw something that didn’t really want to deal with, but I got out of the media for a while, I started doing other business things. But no matter what I did something in the media kept calling me back, whether it’s hosting something, whether it’s writing something, editing something, it just kept calling me back and I started hosting shows, podcast, log, talk, radio shows, doing interviews and I had a few shows on my own, they went very well and then I said you know what, I’m gonna pull away and I want to start helping other people because by that time from the time I started to now, media had evolved tremendously to the point where when I started in media, if you wanted to be on a tv show, you have to know a producer or something, they had to like something about you to even consider you now, you can do your own streaming tv show, you know, you can do it your own if you want to be on a radio show, you have to know someone, you can start your own podcast.

So it was things like that, that now the media has evolved to where we have control of our situation, how we are seen. So what I wanna do is teach people now how to use that and how to be seen so that they can actually not have to depend on someone else to call their name, they can call their own name and be their own boss and be what I call the media boss. That’s a cool concept and thank you for the answer. I think the, the, the architecture, um the reason why it didn’t work, was it? It just wasn’t your passion, do you think that was the main problem? No, I just, I wasn’t good at uh wasn’t good at the math part of it, the trigonometry and things like that and structures and though it was just, it just, I just could not grasp it all, uh the drafting part, the drawing, I love that it was fun to me, I love the creative side of it was the technical side of it that that really did me. So yeah, I think, I think if if you had a passion for those things, I think you probably, it wouldn’t be a problem for you, right?

Whereas, you know, if you’re, if you’re in media and it’s, it’s like a, it’s fun for you then it’s not difficult, would you say that? Yeah, yeah, well, I’m, I’m a creative type. Um, so if I had a passion, I think early on for the math, it might have worked worked out better for me in architecture, but I didn’t have that going into, and even even with, with media, I’m not one who has a passion for the technical side effects, like as far as how the sound works and how, how the, you know, how the cameras work, I’m not that I’m not a technical type person, I’m a creative type, so I’ll have ideas on what should be done in media and I expressed that to those people who have the technical side of it. Well you mentioned in your answer about there was some stuff that you really didn’t like in the in the corporate world and then there’s some stuff where you sort of having fun. Do you mind sharing a couple of those stories? Sure. I mean when in the corporate world I saw something like I tell people there was I call them the ISMs.

I saw sexism, racism, nepotism all in one place and I just didn’t like it and they decided that they didn’t like me because they wanted they wanted someone and I think plenty of people know this on the job. They wanted someone who was going through as they call it brown nose and try to get the way up by you know, being nicer and kissing someone’s rear and that wasn’t me. I was going to do my job and that was it. And they apparently did not like that. So they decided not to renew my contract and it was fine because I remember a professor in college, he told me he told all of us, he said you haven’t worked in television until you’ve been fired. So, so when it happened, I wasn’t like devastated. I was, you know, I was a little hurt, but I wasn’t devastated because I remember what my teacher had told and that allowed me to just move on to the next phase in in my life.

But it it taught taught me a valuable lesson is that I don’t like someone having that type of control over as to where they can say your life is gonna change just like that and I don’t get any say in it. So that’s what uh that’s something that it changed me forever on that point. So you’re, you’re a business owner at heart, is that accurate? Yeah, I say I’m unemployable right now. So what about like the best story from, from that time frame? Well, the best story, I mean, I got to work with some of the best people in the business. That was, that was like fun to me. It was, yeah, I was like, I said, I was, I’m a big sports fan, so I was working, I’m a big football fan, american football fan and I got to work with some of the legends of the game, like terry Bradshaw did Dick Butkus, I got to, they asked me one day to walk uh san, Diego chargers, former quarterback dan shouts to his hotel, some walking through the streets of new york with a hall of Fame legend and I get to just talk to him. And there was one moment where I, there was a game he had played years ago and he threw a touchdown pass through a guy named john jefferson and john jefferson made a great catch for the touchdown and I always wondered was he throwing that ball away?

And jefferson just made a great catch or was he trying to throw that to jefferson. So I got to ask him and he told me he was throwing the ball away and jefferson just want to make a great catch. So he remembered that game and I was like, wow, that’s cool that I got it straight from the horse’s mouth and that, that was like a fun moment for me. I got got a chance to talk to some of the legends cause and, and and it made me feel like when they did their broadcast each week, I was a big part of it because I got to know when you see it, but keep in mind guys, this was way back in the time when we didn’t have the internet, so this like there was a packet that each announcer had to get about the game without the team’s stuff going on on the field and off the field, I was responsible putting together that pack with articles and everything and sending it off to each one of them every week for the, for the football season. And so when you heard them on the air talking about certain things, a lot of that information they got because I put it together. And so it made me feel a big part of it then on Sundays and Saturdays, college football, but when the games were going on, if any of them, if anyone watches like the three game shows, like See some guys milling around in the background.

Well that was me. That was some of us. We were putting we were doing all the research during the games so that they would have some stats to tell the public. So it was fun. I mean, I I enjoyed that time. I’m still, and keep in mind this happened in the 1990s. Well, I see late 80s, early 90s, really, and I am I’m still good friends with some of the people I used to work with. Like some of we communicate all the time, but it’s weird. So I did form some good friendships, but it was a time that I learned from. It was a time I did have fun with, but it was a time that I wouldn’t want to repeat it again, but it was definitely something that I learned from, but I had some fun at the same time. Well, there’s one thing when I was doing some research before the episode and you’ve got a story about a global civility leader and I’m not going to spoil it for other people because I really, I want to get it straight from you. But when I when I read it, I was like, mouth open, I couldn’t believe it. I still do have my mouth um sure, sure there’s a friend of mine dr Rubin West and he is a he’s a well he was a great speaker coach.

He coached speakers on how to present a great, great coach and he did an event called black belt speakers where he would come in and train well because he’s also a black belt in martial arts. Well I had gone to his training before but he was having another one into the other 19. So I went to this event and I was also the host of a radio show with Ruben, an online radio show called Black Ceo Morning Show. And Reuben asked me was I come into his training and I said yeah, you know, I’m gonna come to this one, I think I’m gonna come. And so I went up there and there’s this guy there named Dr Clyde River who we had had on a radio show, but I never met him in person. And Dr Clyde River’s runs an organisation called I change Nations where they promote civility and all the countries around the world, they just go around promoting everyone being civil to one another. And he’s worked with a lot of dignitaries and kings and queens everywhere all over the world and he was one of the, one of the guest speakers there as well and we all got a chance to sit down and meet with him privately. I got my I actually went over my time with him because he and I hit it off really, really well.

Well I noticed during, during the event, a lot of people were getting called up because they were getting awards and I was sitting next to a friend and she got an award and she said yeah everybody kind of knew we were getting awards. So we came because we knew we were getting awards. So that’s cool. Well then they were they got up and Ruben starts announcing introducing this other award for Distinguished Leadership Award. And he was talking about this person how they’ve been doing a lot of great things and leading people and a lot of people love his work and so forth. And I’m like okay cool. And then he says Barrett Matthews what cause my name and my friend, she said you didn’t tell me you were getting a watch. I didn’t know. So I got up I got the award and then I got a chance later that evening to talk to dr rivers and he was he was explaining to me, you know, hey man, you need to put out a press release and all this. And I’ll be honest I’ll be honest with thomas. It still didn’t register with me about the magnitude of it. I was just you know, honored but it didn’t register as to how big it was. I did a press release but it really I still didn’t didn’t mean that much to me.

I mean I shouldn’t say it like that. It didn’t mean as much as as I found out later if it was. So then doc Rivers came to my town and I’m in the Washington D. C. Area. And I met him at his hotel and he and I were talking and he says, I want you to write a book. And I said, okay, I’ve written a book before. He said, I want you to write a book on execution. And I said, okay, I can do that. He said, but I want to also make it more of an international flavor too because that’s something people need to know about doing business internationally as well. I said, okay, I can do that. He said that maybe even be an honorary doctorate in it for you and I’m like, okay, whatever I did, I really care about that. So I wrote the book, I sent him copies and he said, I’m going to distribute this to some of the people I know. Now, right back a little bit prior to that, I talked to Dr west who told me to call Dr Rivers about that award I’ve received and ask him who else had gotten. And he let me know that there was some government people in in other countries, some head President of the Knights of columbus, all these these world dignitaries who got this thing. And I’m like, and me, wow, I was very humbled because I did, I did not realize it was that big of an award.

So back to the present time. He I wrote the book. I sent him copies and he said he was gonna send it to some kings and some people in other countries and I’m like blown away. So this then Covid hit and I remember I walked out of my house to get some air and I was just taking a walk around the block and my phone dinged and it was a picture that he had sent me of a diploma with an honorary doctorate in Humanities that he had awarded. And I was like, he did it. I was like blown away by this that he actually and then it dinged again and he made me a world Civility ambassador with his organization. I changed nation and I’m like at this point time and I’m I’m over the moon. I just couldn’t believe that he did all this for me. I was just really humbled by it. So he later tells me he wants me to do a podcast on Civility where he would basically get me guests for the podcast and we would we would talk about different things on civility and I said great.

I said you’re gonna get me guest, you know, be a fool to say no to that. So I was supposed to have a conversation about who the guests would be, you know, and so forth. And he says, well dr Matthews, I got some great news for you. I said ok, cool. And they put me on hold and they come back. I got some really exciting news that’s also great and exciting. I’m really intrigued now. So he comes back and he says, I was just told that I’m gonna be made a king in Ghana and I’m like, wow, that’s cool, you’re gonna be a king, I’m gonna know a king. He said, well, I got I got some more for, you know, really, what else? And he said, I’d like for you to be one of my world advisers. Now. Now thomas, I’m like, are you serious? He’s like, yeah, I want you to be one of my royal advisors liaison to me. I’m gonna put the I’m going to assemble a team of people and I want you to be one of my role advice. And I’m I am so honored at home. And like you said, you had your mouth open, My mouth is still open. This was a year ago, over a year ago, and I’m just still blown away by this because I mean, I I prayed I prayed to God that someday that I would be used to do something to help change the world.

And then if someone asked me, so you’re gonna do it, you’re gonna help him with this working God. I said, I have to I prayed for this. And so it was just, it’s a humbling experience, but it’s a it’s a very, very weighty experience because it’s some sort of big responsibility and I take it, take it seriously and I’m very happy to work with him from africa on my phone call and um, but it’s it’s fun. I’m getting to implement some things. So what he wants me to do is put together a program called media monarch where we’re gonna be teaching people how to control their own media and to not buy into the propaganda that is dead all the time. And this report facts, report facts and learn facts and not get into the sensationalism that goes along with some of the media that we see out there so that we can actually, it’s the thing is that there can be two sides of the story, but neither one has to be wrong. It just has to be a perspective. And what we want to do is let people understand that, that’s what it’s about.

So we’re gonna be teaching that from a grassroots type of uh scenario. We’re gonna set that up in different countries. We’re gonna start in in Ghana where he is and we’re gonna move it all around and hopefully it’ll grow and more people will start getting back to basics when it comes to media and journalism and just reporting what’s accurate. Well, that sounds like a really worthy work as a side note. That sounds like a very very good thing to be spending your time on when I read the summary of that story. I was like, there was a major lesson and, but I don’t want to read into it. So what was the lesson that you learned from that story? I think there are a couple of lessons, One was, like I said, I prayed for this and just told me to have faith in that things will happen as long as I keep working. And that that’s that’s that’s the main main lesson. I think the other lesson is, you know, you never know what your relationships believe, you never know whether it will be if you if you, first of all be be someone of good character, be someone of integrity and when you meet these people, you never know where they’re gonna leave and be mean because of these relationships, I didn’t know what this is, like, I said, I went to this event not knowing that I was gonna be getting an award.

I had no idea, I just went there because I wanted to learn some things and I wanted to support my friend Dr West was putting on this event because he’s been a good friend to me, and he and I are working on something else right now, and but it’s just one of those things that I didn’t know where it was going to lead to, but you never know what relationship, but as long as you have some integrity and you stay someone of good character that you never know it can, and it may not come the way you wanted, it may not come when you want it, but just be open to the fact that things may come your way and you have to be in position to handle it. So those are some of the lessons that I learned because I just I didn’t expect any of it, but I’m ready. Well, yeah, the second one was the one which I initially thought of because presumably there are plenty of instances along the road of that story where it could have not happened, meaning like if you had decided, well, I don’t I don’t feel like going to that award show. You know, I’m going to give it, I’m going to miss it.

We’ll give it a pass or you don’t want to do that work. That could have gone the other way. Yeah, that usually could have been done because I said I was gonna go and he actually called me to confirm I was coming and I didn’t think anything of it. I said that’s my friend, he called me to make sure I was coming because he has to check his attendance and all that stuff. I didn’t really think a lot of the fact that he called me about it, but I see why he was calling to confirm. So what does it mean now to you that you’re liaison to the king? It’s like I said, it’s it’s a lot of responsibility. I mean keep in mind he’s dealing with a region of like 3-4 million people and he’s having to help build some things, some different different infrastructures and a lot of us. It’s it’s I’m not I’m not the only agent he has several. So we’re all doing different different things, different roles, different parts. And he’s still building and he’s still building relationships with the other kings. They’re different relationships with different people in government and so forth.

So it’s all a process. But it’s just me. I mean, I just have to do my part on my end and not worry about what he has to do because he has a big plate is a big play. And I just he he wants me to put together what I have to put together and then I’ll come back to him with what I have. And the main thing is that as long as I’m working on something that’s related to civility, then he’s fine with that because we’ll bring it to them. So what I’m doing right now with Dr West and another associate of mine, Kimberly Arrington, we’re working on uh possibility and sports network where we’re trying to work with different sports all over the world to make sure that there is some civility. I know you’ve seen some of the some of the craziness that happens here in the US with sports and athletes and fans and so forth and and internationally with fans trampling each other and so forth. We want to get some civility going on where people can treat people as human beings and not go crazy and so forth. That’s what we want, we’re working at and trying to put together some platforms, we want to actually present it to some of the people with the NFL here and in the NBA and maybe even at the Super Bowl if we can, it’s a great message.

So thank you for sharing that in terms of your, you know, your your podcast guesting at the moment, you got your podcast host as well. So in terms of mistakes that people typically make with podcast, what would you what the most common ones that you see people do? The most common one is getting out of their own head. I mean they need to people overthink podcast. I think that is the biggest thing people because they talk themselves out of doing it. They talk themselves out of starting a podcast and I think all of us have a message that someone needs to hear and if we just start talking because people think they have to be perfect when they start and they don’t. You and I both know we’ve made mistakes and we’re gonna continue to make mistakes just just part of the human experience. But I think another mistake that people make is that they go into it thinking that it’s gonna just automatically turning the money for them and podcast if you’re doing a podcast. Yeah, yeah, I mean you can make money doing a podcast, but that should not be your focus.

That should not be your focus because if you don’t make money right away then what happens if it takes you a while to make money? What are you gonna do? And and another thing I think that people do is they go into it looking to have like thousands and thousands of downloads right away and it don’t happen like that. I have a friend um he he started a podcast a few years ago, well about two years ago I think two maybe three years ago and he said for a good year and a half, They were just study, they may get 100 downloads in a month and all of a sudden it shot up right now there were 200,000 downloads and it just happened. But it took like a year and a half before things happen. But most people aren’t that patient so they’ll do four episodes and quick. So so those are those are some of the mistakes that I see people making it, there’s a lot of it is in their head, they got to get away from that and just just do it. Just enjoy it for for the medium that it is.

Start talking to people spreading your message. You never know who’s gonna pick up on it, who’s gonna listen, Who’s gonna love it and what other opportunities may come from. It sounds like some sort of algorithm change or some sort of suggestion from an algorithm, if it’s like a spike like that, would you say that’s accurate? No, I think it’s more consistency. I think it’s I think it’s because I’ve heard that from other people before too, they said they were at it for a long time and then all of a sudden it started shooting up and he, I mean he said he’s been doing the same thing last year, he’s been doing the same thing. He hasn’t really changed his, he might have changed some of his marketing Of his podcast, but he um he said it just, it just shot up in one paper and it’s and it’s been steadily growing that down. So like I said now he did about over 200,000 and I said cool, I said let’s go for a million. Well you said there’s plenty of ways to make a living from podcasting. What would you what ways do you typically recommend?

Well, I mainly recommended people to sell your own products and services on your podcast. A lot of people I get asked this question a lot. They go, well can I sell on my podcast, it’s your show. If you don’t sell on your show, where else you gonna sell? It’s your show, so you yeah, you can sell on your podcast if you have a product or service or whatever that you offered on your podcast. Another thing, you know, a lot of podcasts if they want to get the big dollars, you know, they have to have thousands and thousands of downloads because then the advertisers will be attracted to them and that takes some time to build that. What I also make sure the people is their local businesses in your area who would probably love to be on your podcast and they would more likely be ready to pay to be on your podcast. And that way you can cover any costs if you have to spend on your podcast, you, it costs a lot less than going to a terrestrial radio station for them and the great selling point for them as the business owner is that that ad stayed there forever.

So you know, you can have them or you can have to have them as guests and pay to be guests on your show. A lot of people do that, they have guests that pay to be on the podcast. So those those are other ways and of course, um when you get a large, a large number of downloads, you can get the, the money from, from the, the big sponsors. And another thing is affiliates, you have guests on there, but they have a product or service actually, if they have an affiliate plan where you can market their services on your podcast and you can get paid for it and vice versa, you can, you can have your product or service and have them be representatives for you and affiliates and they can sell your products and services as well. So there are a few ways you can make money on on and there, I’m sure there are more, but it’s just a matter of not always, they just don’t go into it with the purpose of I want to go in and make money. It’s not, it’s not some job that you’re gonna work two weeks and get a Because I think the statistics or something say that is either seven episodes or 11 episodes.

People are done by that and that He mentioned for like four not to a month and do a month and they’re done, do a weekly podcast for a month and they’re done. So there’s always one question that I ask, whenever I speak to someone interested to know what your answer will be. It is, what does success mean to you, wow uh success and I’m gonna sound a little cheesy but success is to me is making God happy. It’s just making God happy cause I, as far as on this earth, as far as material things and doing that. I mean, yes, we all love it. I’d love to have, you know billions of dollars and be able to go anywhere I want to, but it’s not gonna matter in the end and you know, I like to, I like success is staying healthy And being around my family, you know, things like that, that, that, that success for me.

My parents are, my dad just turned 90, my mother turned 88 and a little more than a month that’s success to me. But you know that this is being around them and learning from them and seeing them and that that’s success. To me, it doesn’t have to be all the other things that people look to the material things to come come with the trappings of success of the but I don’t I don’t I don’t need that. I would like it. Yes, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re successful because you and I both know there are a lot of people who are well, people are miserable, so and I’d rather not be that person. Well, normally the follow up question is um based on that criteria, are you a successful person? But I guess it’s tricky to know that if that’s the criteria, tricky to know if I’m making God happy but I’m doing my best and that’s that’s what I can say, you know, I was telling someone that, you know, nobody’s perfect, but God made us perfect in his eyes. So all I can do is just keep working and staying staying someone that he will be pleased with and you know, as far as the other part of it, I get to see my family, I get to be around them.

I get to be with my friends and and I’m relatively healthy as far as I know. So, so yeah, I mean I would, I would think I’m a success in that in those regards. Is there anything I should have asked you about today? Um No, unless, unless you can think of something, I don’t wanna don’t wanna take your time. It’s your show. You ask whatever you want. Well, um, do you have any closing thoughts for us at all? Yeah, I would just say that if anyone out there is looking to do better for themselves, stop procrastinating some someone you know once told me if you have and I talked to business people a lot, if you if you are have a product, a service, a brand or whatever and you are looking to get out there because you feel it can help people, if you feel like you feel it can serve people well. How long are you gonna make them wait, it’s time for you to make it happen to get out there.

And that’s why I work with people to help them get their message out there and make sure that they spread themselves around the globe so that everyone can see you make them see you make them hear your voice. So that’s what I have to say everything. Thank you for that. My initial impression of the story about, you know, meeting someone who turns out to be made a king was like, I don’t know there’s some sort of luck involved, but you know, meeting you and hearing what you’re sort of the context of the story. It kind of, there is a, there is a cause and effect side of that I think, you know, there’s a reason why that happened, it wasn’t just some luck and I really appreciate you sharing the story then in terms of where people can get in touch or follow you, where do you share? Well, I’m on, I’m on social media on facebook, I’m on linkedin. I’m on instagram as well.

If they want to reach out there, I’m on twitter. Um also if they want to have a complementary training that I do for people, they can just go to 5waystopayingclients.com and they just look at the training I offer doesn’t cost a dime so just information they can learn on how to get more clients, they want to pay them. Barrett, thank you for being a great guest today. Thank you Thomas, I appreciate you so much