The Effective Presenter With Ryan Warriner

Thomas Green here with Ethical Marketing Service. On the episode today, we have Ryan Warriner. Ryan, welcome,

Thank you very much, Tom, for having me on.

It’s my pleasure. Would you like to take a moment and tell the audience a bit about yourself and what you do?

Sure, yeah. So, Ryan Warriner and I do a couple of different roles in a few capacities. I always have to think for a second before I answer this because, depending on who I’m speaking to, there’s more value in different roles. But overall, I’m a professor of communication and I’ve been a professor for about eight or nine years now. I am also an executive coach. I coach many clients. I consult with many different organisations on optimising their messaging their communication aspect internally and externally and in parallel I’m also a published author. So I write books, I write articles. I write research. So I tried my hand at a little bit of everything. But lately, most recently my book has just been published, The Effective Presenter, and I try to help as many folks as I can with their speaking with their delivery, optimising their communications so they can realise better results.

Yeah, good intro. I know we spoke previously about this, but would you like to just go through the story of how you went from, shall we say, professor to being a consultant or a coach? Yeah, sure. So what happened? It was it was kind of an accident almost it was just by happenstance. I have a number of friends who I grew up with and, and a few of them relocated to California. Um, because I was born in Canada and when they went to California, I went out there to visit them one summer on vacation, you know, they persuaded me. And being from the cold frozen north, as you can imagine, going to California wasn’t much of a hard sell, especially in the wintertime. So, I went there just thinking it was going to be a vacation, go see some sights, and things like that. And I ended up being kind of brought into a couple of conversations again, just by happenstance, some of the folks, I was visiting friends of friends, if you will, they were discussing their pitch that they had coming up for their startup company. They needed some investment.

And there were a few other companies there that were in the midst of fundraising as well. So what I did was I kind of sat in on a couple just happened to be there. And then afterwards I spoke to one of the co-founders in private and I said, hey, you know, not to push anything on you, but if you want my suggestion, I would restructure this. And they said, what do you mean? And I explained, I said, I wouldn’t start with, you know with, you know what you’ve been doing for the last four years, right? I would start with, you know what they need, what they need to see where the value is and then we kind of worked our way from there and I worked our way from there, I mean they slowly kind of picked my brain and I didn’t think anything of it at the time. It’s kind of funny looking back on it because I just thought we were having a conversation, I didn’t know what the future held for me and it was, you know, the next day and you know, going on about my business onto my next adventure, they reached out and they said can you come back and I said yeah, sure and one thing led to another then after that, that pitch where they were successful, they received their funds more than they asked for actually and then I got a call an email from someone else, hey, I got your name from so and so from one of my, my friends and can you come in and help us and then that led to a larger company and then that led to corporate training and then that led to, so it kind of just snowballed after that.

It’s kind of interesting, do you ever think about, you know the impact that you had there? Is that company still going, do you know? Yeah, they are actually, they just reached there, they actually went public about a year ago. But yeah, they were in startup for, for not in startup, but like a private company for a long time. I think about it sometimes because you know, sometimes things have so many things happen in a day and we don’t really get a chance to process one or two individual events just because you know, there’s so much going at us. I’m sure my listeners out there now and I’m sure, you know as well, like sometimes so many things happen in a day and you go home and you forget three of them, right? Because there are other things that happen, but when I actually took a second to process, I realised that they knew right away that the value that I was giving them. But to me it was just, you know, I was just giving them my what made sense to me and I was just, you know, being trying to be helpful to a friend of a friend who, you know, who had invited me down there and then yeah, now thinking back, it’s like if I would have been shy and not said anything, I don’t even, I don’t know where I would be right now, that was like the turning point of my life basically, it was interesting because I think people do have those thoughts of, should I offer my opinion here or should I just keep myself to myself because I don’t want to offend anyone type thing, but if it is the case that they wouldn’t have raised the finance because you didn’t help them?

I mean, that’s a significant difference just by helping, I would suppose. Yeah, I think it’s interesting you say that because you’re right, some people are reluctant to accept suggestions or recommendations, especially, you know, there’s all different types of folks in the world, right? So some people are more willing to, you know, are more coachable, are more open to feed, but you have to be careful to write because there’s a lot of people who will give you advice that’s not that’s counterproductive. and that might work against you. But I think one of the things I’ve always had for me, it’s been reflected in my conduct, in my demeanours. I’m always very friendly and I always convey like I’m on your side and I want to help you and when they recognised that my background was communication, and I studied this and I studied psychology and how people learn and how people receive messages and how to influence folks that they were a little bit more receptive, I think than otherwise they might have been. But yeah, you know, just thinking back on it now, you sparked the memory for me. I’m thinking, wow, yeah, I don’t know where I would be in my life if I had not gone on that trip and had not spoken up.

So is it quite bad their pitch before you helped? It wasn’t bad. It would be if it was for a different audience, so it would be, it wouldn’t have the optimal result for investors, let’s say. However, if they were looking for a partner or if they were looking for someone to, you know, to kind of merge with, it would have been better suited because it was more technical in nature, it was more about the features, the functionality and rather than, you know, the, the value of growth and the opportunity in the market and things that investors are more, you know, concerned with. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think so. Um, I am interested to know how that goes from, because you said it was a referral, so you help them out, they obviously recognised the value and then you’ve got a referral from that. At what point do you think this is actually a business or a potential business for me? You know, to be honest with you, it wasn’t until years later, it’s not because like I said, it’s kind of, it’s interesting now because, you know, I, I’ve got on social media, I got on LinkedIn about a year or so ago, maybe two years ago, you know, at the behest of my publisher because they wanted me to have more of a presence online.

Up until then, I strictly worked off of referrals. So folks would contact me because they heard they had a good experience with someone else and they realised benefits and they wanted me to come in. So that’s that I didn’t realise when I got on social media, especially on LinkedIn, that it’s like everyone and their brother is calling themselves a coach and a consultant. So I know I actually never referred to myself as a coach or consultant until recently, but I think it was about three or four years after I started when I realised, okay, I’m going to have to, this is not just, you know, Ryan Warriner anymore, Ryan J Warriner, I needed to like, you know, start a company and I needed to actually focus and develop some brand recognition, some awareness because like before that, like as I say, it was just me and I just viewed it as helping out folks who needed help when they requested because yeah, that’s what I do. And then, yeah, I had to, like I said, actually go down the whole business road, which, which I wasn’t too overly enthusiastic about to begin with.

I’ll be honest with you, I was, I, I quite liked being just kind of like on call, when, when, when, when requested, I’m not, I wasn’t a big fan of having to promote and you know, constantly prove what I can do. I’d rather just, you know, folks who know, and they refer someone else, then I come in. It’s much easier for me to work with companies in that nature. Because you have, you’re predominantly a professor or you were, So you had your sort of 9-9-5 job and it was like a side gig for you initially. Is that right? Yeah, initially it was being a being a professor. It affords you a lot of flexibility and a lot of freedom. So thankful and access to tons of research, which has been probably most advantageous is that I can access tunnels like as much research as I want and so yeah, that’s that being at the beginning, that’s what I didn’t, even though I, you know, of course, like companies were paying me, it just, it still didn’t seem like work to me. It was almost like, yeah, I’m just, I’m doing someone a favour, almost as if like I’m helping my brother move when he needed to move from an apartment to a house.

I just helping something that’s tell me about, especially in the summer, but that’s what I viewed it as, you know, so they’re asking me for a favour, I’ll go in there, help them and then, and then, you know, they, they get paid, I get paid after. Well, that’s great, and I didn’t actually think that it was going to be, so shall we say like a livelihood? Not that it’s that now because obviously I’m still a professor, but yeah, eventually I had to, you know, kind of formalise things and take it to the next level and, and that’s where professional presentation services came in and yeah, that’s where we are. So what point do you become an author? That’s a great question because I had never fancied myself a fantastic writer yet. I had for a long time written articles and resources and research when I decided to write the book that came from so many of my former clients and my current clients who requested my presence and requested my consult on a number of different variety of issues. I couldn’t be in all places at once.

And it had been, you know, kind of the bug put in my ear over the years. Like you should write a book, you should write a resource, you should write a guide, something we can refer to if you’re not here, because sometimes it be not all the time, but probably about half the time it would be, they’d say like I forgot, how do I structure this again? Or you know, what’s the best way to give an update? I need people engaged, they need to get this, what’s the, what, what can I do? And it was somewhat of the same formula. So eventually, I like a little bit trying to think like probably it’s been about three or four-year process, I’ve been chipping away at it. And then finally it took the form of, of a book with a framework that scientifically supported proven, etcetera. And, And yeah, it’s actually sold out. It was crazy. My publisher, sorry, I know I’m going on a tangent. My publicist called me the day before it came out. It was supposed to come out on February 2nd. They called me on February 1st and said, we’re already sold out of print, we have to do another print run. And that kind of blew me away. I was kind of like, okay, now it’s serious. Congratulations.

Thank you. Any thoughts on why that was the case? Not in person. I can’t. I mean, I’ve been doing a lot of, you know, podcast and publicity for it, but I think it’s more from the former clients and organisations I worked with. when I reached out to them, when my publicist reached out to them and said, hey, you know, Ryan’s producing a book, he’s publishing a book and they saw, I think that’s where a number of them came from, interestingly enough, also in the UK, a number of camera, what the store is called. But apparently there’s a one of the bookstore has kiosks in airports. Apparently they purchased a large number two to sell to folks who are traveling, and I thought first, I thought that’s interesting. But then I thought, you know, what made that, that makes sense because I’m sure there’s a lot of business folks that travel around, right? I thought it might be all the people that you helped raise finance are paying you back through book sales. Yeah, well maybe they are. I don’t I don’t I don’t have that specific analytics or data on it, but I hope so too.

So it took 3-4 years because the reason why I’m interested in this is because lots of people have very different processes of how they go about writing a book. Did you enjoy it? And what was your process? Yeah, so actually writing the book, you’re asking the process was I first had to sit down and map out my framework well what became my framework, but I started to break down Okay, how if I didn’t know any, if I were consulting on with an organisation or with an executive who didn’t know the first thing about how to be successful in speaking and presenting in anything, how would I start? And I mapped it out all the way And then after I refined that, I reviewed it a number of times, it actually solidified as an 11 step framework that it kind of looks like a pyramid.

If you see it as a visual in my book right beside me. But if you if you go through the steps and that’s what I each step is supported by data science and experiences, I always share stories to the book and to illustrate the points, but if you go through the framework, you’re effectively every step, you’re completing your moving the needle incrementally a little bit more in your favour to achieve your desired outcome. And so each, once I’ve formed, once I firmed up each of the steps of the framework and I had a solid base to go off of each of the chapters I elaborated and I clarified and kind of went in depth on each of the steps and I gave suggestions. Something that’s important for me is not just the what, but the how? So for example, everyone says, know your audience, you need to know your audience, you must know your audience and any speaking coach or presentation expert who’s worth their salt will tell you that. But what I focus on is the how or the how and the why and what does that mean?

So you know, you’re out. Okay. I know who my audience is. How does that help me? Like how can I now improve my presentation based off this knowledge and throughout the book, I outlined that, I describe, you know what, when you find something out about your audience, how you can utilise that knowledge, what does that look like in terms of your presentation design and your delivery, so you can maximise your success and each of the chapters is like that, that’s why I think it was, it was pretty successful or it has been so far is that Dale Carnegie, know your audience dale speaking guy, I like Dale Carnegie and how to win friends and influence people, I like him a lot, but the whole, yeah, everyone says know your audience and I think it’s just become kind of like a tagline, but really if you know your audience it doesn’t do you any good unless you can actually take away, like that’s going to inform the design and the delivery. If it doesn’t inform the designer delivery, what does it matter? All right, so I’m interested to know because I always ask about whether you have a favourite part of the book or not, Is that relevant Given the fact that it’s a sort of structure, as you say, 11 part structure Yeah, my favourite part of the book is probably – it’s one of the later ones – step nine I think is the speaking anxiety and like coping with speaking anxiety and reducing nerves and I really enjoyed it.

I’ve done a ton of research in that area and I’ve written many articles and, and much on this topic because it’s just, it’s, it’s so prominent, it, there’s so many folks experience it and to different varying degrees, but nonetheless, everyone experiences it and when I’ve worked with speakers, when I’ve worked with executives who dread leading meetings, they dread it, you know, everything is, you know, if they have to give an update or they have to give an all hands address or they have, it’s like, you know, a very daunting task that they want to get over with more so than anything. And when I work with them to see them employ some of the techniques and the strategies outlined in the book that I’ve put in there and when you see them afterwards and they’re not, they’re like, looking forward to it. Like I get to try this. So now let’s see how this works. To me, that’s most rewarding for me, is when people, they view their next speaking opportunity as an opportunity, not as like a burden or something, they have to just grit their teeth and trudge through.

Do you know what I mean? It makes sense because of you said a couple of times, once in this conversation and once in our previous one, that you get more of a kick out of helping people. So it means more to you to help someone than it does to, let’s say, raise finance successfully or something. But can you share a couple of things of what you might tell that person who has speaking anxiety? Yeah, for sure. So it takes all different forms. There are a couple um, common symptoms that many people feel that, like sweating, dry, dry mouth, um, hyperventilating or quickness of breath. They sometimes – hands get clammy. So there’s a number of physical responses that happen, but ultimately the first step that I, I usually start with is explaining to folks who, whoever I’m working with is what is happening within their body that when they feel anxiety, when they feel the nerves, what’s actually taking place like the mechanics internally.

And usually it saw an abbreviated version for this purpose. But we are we sense danger because we’re outnumbered by an unfamiliar audience and that stems back from our ancestors. It’s like tribal. Like if we were on our own with a number of folks, we might be in a dangerous situation. So our brain is screaming like, get out of here, get out of here. Or, you know, the fight or flight type of reaction kicks in and that releases the adrenaline and then your body is responding at that certain systems are shutting down, certain systems are amping up and that’s all happening subconsciously. Right? So it happens to everyone. It’s just different people have different stimulus and different degrees of stimuli. So when people, when, when I’m working with them, when they first start to realise that that it’s not just them, that everyone has it, it’s just a different degree, different level. And they see what’s happening on camera and my breath quickening now because I’m getting ready to fight or flight or I can’t think properly because, you know, there’s a program running in the background. I tell I tell folks that’s a good analogy, like, you know, on your phone or something, if you’re trying to open it on your computer if you have another program taking a band with in the background, it’s gonna be very difficult for you to remember and deliver like you want to deliver, right?

So that’s usually step one is actually understanding what’s happening. And when, once you get to the hang of it and you start to realise what’s happening and you actually see it, you can feel it and you know, okay, this is happening now because the next my mouth will start getting dry. Oh yeah, here comes that. I’ll take a sip of water once you start knowing that it’s much easier to cope with and it’s much easier to go on. Well, I think that I suppose that it would be interested to know why that’s the case because it makes me think that people start focusing on that, on those symptoms, as you say, more than they do the actual topic. Whereas if you’re thinking about the process of that, it means that you’re not actually thinking about that itself. Like, I need to stop sweating. Like my palms are clammy and I need to stop that. And obviously the more you think about it, the more likely it is to happen, right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it comes back to it’s one of those things, they say it’s simple, but it’s not easy, right?

Like it’s simple to beforehand, you know, have the understanding that I will perform better. I will deliver better, I will have a better chance of increasing or having success if I, you know, focus on this, don’t worry about that, understand this. But then when you step up in front of people and it starts happening, it gets difficult to cope with you. I think I said this on our last recording, but uh, Mike Tyson, the famous boxer, had an expression, he says everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face and that’s exactly what happens with speaking side. It’s like you have a plan, you, I’m going to go up there, I’m not gonna worry about what anyone’s thinking, I’m just gonna deliver and I’m going to focus on these and then when you get up there, it’s a different story, right? Like then your body is kind of acting in parallel with, it’s a separate from you. So in order to kind of override your system and start taking back some control and start working with it to, like, that’s what understanding your speaking anxiety does, like when you understand what’s happening, then you’re working with it.

Then all of a sudden, you know, you know, you know what to expect. So it’s not, it’s like going out in the cold. Okay, I know I’m going to get goose bumps. I know I’m gonna start shivering. I know, whereas if you just inside your house and you started shivering, you’d be like, oh, what’s going on, right? You start panicking, like what’s happening with me. So yeah, so there’s a there’s a degree of that that’s typically where I start. You said previously that you have access to a lot of research. Is there anything if I were to say like the most interesting thing that you found in relation to research? Is there anything that springs to mind now? Mm hmm. Most interesting. Well, one thing that is counterintuitive, I don’t know if it’s if it’s super interesting because I don’t know how much how much research people think is actually interesting except for nerds like myself. I think it’s interesting alright, then we’re in business. That’s all we need. one thing that I found it’s kind of counterintuitive is many folks think that if they’re seated when they’re speaking, they’ll be more comfortable and that’s a preferred position for them.

However, the research shows that’s not the case. The research shows that when you’re sitting, you’re more likely to be in a condensed, uh, you know, in a shortened version of yourself. So your diaphragm is compressed and your lungs are compressed and that creates more anxiety and then you’re not, you know, they think that if I’m on the same level or you know, if I’m seated because usually I’m seated at home, I’m comfortable. So if I’m seated in a meeting I might be, but actually you feel like you’re a little bit more than you’re more likely to feel like you’re under attack or that you’re more vulnerable and you don’t have all of your facilities, whereas if you’re standing up straight in your, you know, your lungs are opening up, you take in more oxygen, you’re projecting better, your blood flow is better, you’re functioning more, you know, more optimally. So that’s one piece of, one piece of advice. One piece of research out there for listeners stand up. If you can, it’s better for you. Well, coming back to what you said about lots of, let’s say, multiple people who you don’t know who you could potentially be under attack or whatever it whatever that was that you said, if you’re sitting, then it’s going to be a little bit more intimidating than standing.

As you say, I just saw human beings are so weird, aren’t they in that, in that Why? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. In that scenario, just, just to be clear, I’m not suggesting you’re going to get attacked at your next speaking conference, but that’s where that, that ingrained fear comes from human evolution and anything that you found that was completely opposite to what you thought it would be. So, you had a particular conclusion or premise if you like, and the research suggests that it was the opposite, Anything that springs to mind there. Hmm, I don’t know about, completely opposite off the top of my head, trying to think about, there’s a couple of points that the research has changed on over the years. So initially They said that some early research and by early, I mean in the 60s and 70s, it said that if you have open hands open palms, it’s a sign of, you know, no tools, no weapons, it’s more welcoming versus, you know, your hands in your pockets and your hands behind your back, which that holds up.

But one thing it did say is if you’re if the research said that it’s better basically to have empty hands than to say, be holding a pointer or a pen or a remote for your power pointer for your presentation. And over the years, we found out that it’s actually not like holding something, is it releases if you’re, if you’re holding anything in your hand, if it’s a point or a pen, what happens? It releases oxytocin in your blood, which helps calm you down, which helps you deliver better. Um, as far as the audience is concerned, as long as it’s something that’s reasonable, for example, a pointer or pen, then they goes to notice largely from their account. So that’s one thing that I’ve been like a baseball bat or something like that. Yeah, it probably wouldn’t be good to hold a knife or something. You know, that might raise some eyebrows just for, for listeners out there. But, but yeah, if you if you go in holding a pen or holding something like that’s, that’s completely fine. You don’t fiddle with it, don’t flip it around. But as long as you’re, you’re holding it, that’s okay, what degree if you struggled with this sort of thing?

Because it makes me think that anyone who knows as much about this topic as you do, it might be a coping mechanism for someone who was really nervous about public speaking to. What degree does that apply to you? Mm hmm. You’re asking some good questions today, Tom, I’ll give you that. I’ve been on a lot of podcasts. I haven’t been asked these questions yet to what degree I, I’ve been. So it’s a little bit, I’ve been fortunate in that I don’t experience from what I understand. I don’t experience the same degree of speaking anxiety as the average person. So for me speaking in front of an audience is much easier. It’s much less daunting of a task. And in fact I’ve gotten to the point now where if I don’t speak in front of an audience for a couple of days, I miss it. And I’m like, when am I speaking next? I want to speak? I’ll speak on anything. You know, it’s like um, so that for me has been a little bit of an evolution, but it’s been a shorter curve I think because I’ve just been naturally more prone to speaking in front of an audience. But I can say, let me say for one thing I started out my career as a teacher.

So I started teaching kindergarten and started teaching in New York, actually. And I was teaching, you know toddlers like 34 years old, five years old. And what I began to, what I’ve learned really early on is I need, I that’s my, my job at the time was I need to get through to them. I have information they need to absorb and process and retain. So My focus was early in my career. You know, I had to and we’re talking like 15, 20 years ago but that my goal was to be a fantastic teacher. And I knew that the only way I could do that is if I conveyed the knowledge if I helped them learn. So for me, the speaking anxiety kind of took a back seat to me performing well. That was my priority. And that was my focus. And I’ve kept that. I’ve maintained that throughout my career is I need my audience engaged. I need them to and see how I, what I see and realise what I realise and know what I know.

How can I do that the best and everything else kind of takes a backseat because you wanted to help them? Yeah. They’re going back to that. Yeah, that’s my goal. That was always my goal. So yes, can you give the listeners a little bit of information about who contact you for services. So what’s the typical inquiry look like for you since the pandemic? It’s been a lot of, well recently it’s been, can you come and give a talk on your book? Because we have salespeople or customer success managers or what have you that we need to level up their speaking skills when they speak with others. But since the pandemic a couple years ago, I got been requested for a lot of leadership training. So, uh, new leaders, people who have just been empowered to a leadership position. Um, equipping them well, helping them realise the new situation there in the new territory that they’re navigating the differences between before and now and then giving them the tools to do that.

So that includes language and phrasing and that also includes, um, some strategies to help them view and help them simplify some complex problems so they can make informed decisions. So I’ve been doing a lot of leadership and what that looks like is I’ll either get an email or a phone call from them directly. They’ll say, you know, hey Ryan, we got your name from So And so do you do training on this or we heard you did a fantastic training and team cohesiveness for company X. Can you come here and do, do you do conflict resolution? Can you do one of those for us? And you know, we kind of go from there and sometimes I have an email I get from a former client introducing me to someone saying Ryan, you know, this is, you know, Greg from Company X can you, they need this can I’ll leave you to it and then we go from there, that’s and then once I get, once I do that, it’s kind of funny, once I do the speaking of the training then afterwards, usually it almost always happens, it’s only not happened a couple of times. Whoever the senior the director or the VP or whoever the most senior person in the room is, they’ll approach me afterwards and asked me do you do individual coaching?

I have a few folks I want you to work with on like a weekly basis or something, so that’s how I usually get clientele. But yeah, generally it stems from the group, the training or the coaching and consulting. It is the book behind you, is it? Somewhere in that library of books you got back? It is not, it is to my left, one second. Here, it is the effective presenter, the winning formula for business presentations. That’s cool, thank you very much. Yeah, my publisher did a great job with the cover, I focused on one of the, one of the kind of taglines I came up with through the book, is that everything in life is a presentation, like, like everything, whether you’re in an interview and you’re presenting yourself or you’re meeting someone for the first time you’re always presenting. it’s just the context and the content that changes and those folks, can they can present, they can communicate those are the ones who illuminate those are the folks that get more opportunities because simply because not that they’re more intelligent or they’re more, you know, anything else than they’re able to effectively convey what they need to and they’re received in the intended way.

And it’s as simple as it lands the way they want it to land, right? And those types of, if you can add that to your toolkit, you’ll start to realise more opportunities. Almost instantly I’m talking like the next day. And if you see more opportunities, I mean that’s the key to success, right? So for anyone who’s anyone out there listening, I’ve been telling folks through my publicist and elsewhere reading this book really. It was designed to help. That’s 100% what it is. It’s very reader friendly, it’s a conversational style and I tell folks it’s like getting a master’s in speaking and presenting over a weekend and that’s really what I meant it to do. Any presenters that you admire, the people would know. Yeah, yeah, I’ve gotten asked that before. Presenters. I can tell you about speakers. One speaker that I like a lot is Simon Sinek. He speaks a lot about leadership and I find his delivery is very, very well timed and I can tell you from just, he makes it look easy, which is that’s an expert thing to do, right?

He makes it look easy, but you could tell there was hours and hours of rehearsal behind it. So yeah, Simon Sinek would be, would be one of my top speakers. If people folks are out there looking for a model of what a great speaker is, then I would check him out. I will do that. So you’re in book promotion phase at the moment. What’s next for you? No. Yeah, that’s a great question. Well, I’ve been asked to write, I’ve been asked to write a second book already and I have some thoughts about that. So I’m gonna be considering that and in the near future I have a few more talks lined up a few more weeks said promotional events. Um, actually leaving for Denver shortly to speak at a conference there. And yeah, I’m actually, I’m very fortunate. I’ll be honest with you. I’m, I’m at a point in my career where I can kind of pick and choose my opportunities and you know me, my, my priority. How can I help the most people? So that kind of is my compass that helps me decide which opportunities I’m going to seize and which ones I’ll have to take a pass on until next time.

But yeah, that’s what’s happening next. That kind of raises an interesting question because of the, let’s say, the teaching that you do the book writing the podcasting. And also, I mean of those options that you have, what tends to help the most people. Mm hmm. I’ve Well, hopefully the book will. All right. I know right now we’ve only sold like 3000 something like that copies in pre order because it’s just come out. But hopefully the book will over time. But right now I think it’s the training sessions that I do. I work with, like I said, a number of different organisations, including I work with a number of law firms as well for their lawyers who need some speaking confidence when they speak to judges and folks of higher authority And those types of events when I’m able to work with 50 plus people and afterwards I can coach a number of those and then I come they refer me to someone else that I think that makes the most impact because the tools I give them their residual benefits for everyone else that they come encounter with.

So that’s as far as I’ve thought about it. That’s as far as that’s what I’ve come up with. But you’ve given me some food for thought for later. Is there anything that I should have asked you about today?

I think you’ve covered it. I mean, as far as your audience, Tom, you’re the expert. But if anything else, I would just say to folks if you did – not that you didn’t ask me this – but if there’s something I can do to help you or if you want to get in touch, you can contact me on LinkedIn or my email is and visit my website, There’s a number of free resources on there to help. You do an introduction, a conclusion. I wrote tons of articles. There’s a lot for you there and you can subscribe to our mailing list. It’s kind of the gateway to everything else that I do and that we do. So yeah, feel free if there’s something I can do to help you. Reach out and we’ll see what we can put together.

Ryan Warriner. Thank you very much.

Thanks so much, Tom.